Mr. Michael Fingleton:

Well, as I said in my statement, Senator, that my opinion was at the time, that I formed, and the advice the board had and the advice I gave the board, was that all societies had no future as an independent stand-alone institutions. And that was all societies, not just Nationwide, but, in particular, us because of our size and our lack of critical mass, we ... it would be not feasible for us to go the incorporation route, the plc route and go public. It just wouldn't ... we just wouldn't get the support for it, and that was the advice we got independently as well as my own feelings on the matter.