John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Okay. Briefly, in your opening statement I want to just put one more quote to you, "Another surprise was to discover that former governments seemed, at least so the story goes, to have discouraged [or] (even banned) the idea of meetings [between] secretary generals as a group to discuss policy unless [the] Ministers were present." Who told you that these meetings were banned or how did you come across that information and what impact did that have, in your view, on how Government operated? And was there a change in your time as Secretary General of the Department?