Mr. Gary Doggett:

Otherwise, it can be viewed as a free course that leads to a reduction in the sentence, which would be a win-win situation. It is a question of feeling the pain, if I may use that term. The mammy quite often phones up to book the course. I recently had a mammy sitting in on the interview with the young man. This guy was about 25 years old. When I brought up the cost of the programme, the mammy said "sure I'll pay for it, didn't I give birth to him?". When I asked her if she was driving or sitting in the car, she said "No". I told her I would much prefer the young man to pay for it because he needed to learn. That is very much where we are at from a financial perspective.