Mr. Frank Daly:

I think you ask both of us that, Deputy. I suppose, maybe can I talk two facets of that? If you go back to the whole crash and the difficulties, if Anglo and Irish Nationwide were not there would the other banks have followed into this lending frenzy in property? I think it's fairly well accepted that Anglo and Nationwide were the leaders and that the other banks followed, so that's maybe one aspect of it. If they weren't there at the time who knows what might have happened.

If you get into the situation where there is a problem and you're thinking about an asset management solution and you don't have the Anglo and the INBS one, would the scale of the losses in the other banks still justify a NAMA type approach? I think we probably would, and I think when you're getting to that stage, because you'd still have had a very considerable par debt lending into property, I still think that the banks would not have been capable of dealing with that themselves, and you would be left of course with the question of well what do you do with all those loans in Anglo and INBS. Anglo at the time, of course, had been, you know, had been nationalised, but you still have to deal with the loans. So, do you let them in the nationalised bank for that bank to work them out? Do you actually push them into the other banks, Bank of Ireland and AIB? I think that would have been pretty much disastrous, or do you take the view that an assessment management approach is the best way to go? I'm fairly strong in my view that right across the system, and whether Anglo and INBS were still there or not, that you would still have needed an asset management approach for all of the reasons we discussed this morning about why that approach was appropriate.

Mr. McDonagh may have-----