Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 26 February 2015

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs

Possible Exit of UK from European Union: Discussion (Resumed)

2:00 pm

Mr. Eugene Regan:

I will begin, and if I miss any points I ask members to come back to me. On the question of the Six Counties and the implications of having a border with the free trade area, a British exit would require provision to be made for a common travel area, but it might be a difficult task to maintain it in that new context. In regard to the unified patent court and where its institutions are to be located, the best answer is that the European police training college was supposed to be located in the United Kingdom but I understand that is no longer being proposed. That may a fallout from the furore that has emerged in the area of justice, policing and criminal law.

In regard to Deputy Byrne's comments on the general election in the UK, of course it is a theoretical question, and the issue will only crystallise after the election. There is also a Scottish dimension. There might be another referendum in Scotland should the United Kingdom exit the EU. There is no clear indication as to what the UK Government wants, but David Cameron has at times indicated that out of the four freedoms, he wants to make changes in regard to the free movement of labour and people. Other countries have a problem with such changes because the relevant provisions were embedded in the European Union from its outset. It is also important for Ireland and Irish people living in the UK that there be no impediment to free movement. The focus has turned to the notion of welfare tourism and the benefits attributed to workers when they move between member states. Angela Merkel indicated that she was open to considering measures in that regard. This type of response may help to defuse many of the issues that have arisen.

Schengen is a tricky area. It was Tony Blair who decided that the UK should be seen to be more positive towards Europe at a particular point in time and, while not opting into Schengen, the UK opted into the policing and criminal law provisions of Schengen. We followed suit. Schengen was brought into the European Union under the Maastricht treaty, but there remains a set of Schengen measures in criminal law and policing - please do not ask me to list them - which we have opted into without also opting into other normal post-Lisbon treaty measures on criminal law. It is a very complex area. We have opted into that aspect of the Schengen Agreement but not into the free movement aspects.

In regard to the impact of changing security provisions on the debate about co-operation on criminal law, we have seen that time and again.

The Olympic Games massacre gave rise to the setting up by the member states of the TREVI group, which attempted to exchange information and have countries work together in this area. The 9-11 attacks resulted in the adoption of the European Arrest Warrant. The warrant worked effectively in the more recent London bombings to extradite the responsible parties from Italy, and they were convicted in the UK. Those types of thing do change. Denmark is looking at the exercise of a protocol similar to Ireland, and the recent terrorist acts in the country may have an impact on that. That always has an impact. The criminal justice area and the EAW are not the real concern about the Union in the UK. Some changes are needed and those concerns could be assuaged. Free movement, immigration and what is termed "welfare tourism" are the kernel of the concern.

There was a question about the European Court of Human Rights. In many ways, the issues that have given rise to concerns and adverse political comment in respect of Europe have concerned ECHR judgments in Strasbourg rather than the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg.

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