Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour) | Oireachtas source

There is a structure to this. We have to adhere to the structure. It just needs a format to work with.

In principle I agree with the Deputy that we need to find actions based on it. We have added a further 20% to the budget for homelessness. Just weeks ago I gave another €4 million for Dublin alone. I am not convinced it is all about funding. There may be isolated issues related to funding that are necessary and if so we will deal with them as they are itemised. Many of the issues here relate to processes. NGOs do outstanding work. The Department is doing a considerable amount of work to address the issue by working with the local authorities, particularly in Dublin. Work is also being done by various other agencies - through the HSE and others.

It is not simply a case of providing accommodation. If it was a case of just providing accommodation, I reckon we could provide it This issue is about ensuring we have a process in place such that people who find themselves in this vulnerable and difficult situation have their needs met. It is not just their accommodation needs but on a continual basis there needs to be analysis to ensure they do not slip back into homelessness. Many of the people have very complex issues that need a wide array of actions and help. The NGOs are doing a great job in all the work they do. There is all the implementation that is happening from a local authority point of view and then obviously there are all the agencies, particularly the HSE.

My real hope is that what happens on Thursday will solidify the processes by which we can ensure people are not slipping through the cracks. If there are gaps and if there are issues that need to be addressed, we should itemise them and deal with them immediately. Am I saying that funding is not one part of that? It possibly could be, but I am not convinced that if it is, it is the only aspect. I certainly believe the main issue here relates to processes. We need to get everyone together to ensure people are not slipping between the cracks. It is not just a case of meeting someone's housing need for one night in emergency accommodation. We need to have a process of engagement with that individual so that he or she is not homeless again the following night, the following week or the following month and we need a consistent architecture that is always in place.

I want all these aspects joined up. I want any gaps that are identified to be addressed as actions coming out of Thursday's meeting. If there is a requirement for more funding, I am not shy about asking for it. I will do so and I will give that commitment to this committee. I will ask for it, if that is part of the fallout from this. It will be a transparent process. I was very taken by the archbishop's comments this morning. I thought they were considered and helpful. However, there are issues that have to be addressed. Sometimes they are outside my control.

In this city one particular group has a number of units which are closed and they will not open in the short term, which is unacceptable. I cannot control that. People are not being facilitated because of decisions that I do not believe are fair. That is wrong. The local authority is trying to deal with the issue. Taxpayers' money has been used in this case - many members are aware of it - where the Catholic Housing Trust has 99 units that are not being utilised. Independent of me having to make some form of decision to go back and chase taxpayers' money, which I do not want to have to do, I would ask that they come together and address this for once and for all because it is creating an issue with supply and the availability of resources. That summarises what I want to happen on Thursday.

Deputy Catherine Murphy raised a number of issues that we will not deal with in detail today. The climate Bill is very important and I know the Deputy has a very considered interest in it, based on previous appearances. It will be coming through very shortly.

The Deputy also raised the issue of the planning (No. 1) Bill, which will also come through very shortly.

It will be a very progressive Bill that will deal with a number of issues raised by many people in these Houses, particularly with regard to vacant sites. The key question from the Deputy relates to the planning and development (No. 2) Bill, which deals with issues arising from the Mahon tribunal. This is important legislation from a planning perspective with regard to the architecture of the State and how we ensure what happened in the past does not happen again. That architecture has been recommended and will be enacted through this Bill. In lieu of the changes in this Bill, I felt it necessary to announce a full review of the operation of An Bord Pleanála. I am the first Minister to do this as it has never happened in the history of the State. This is not for a defined view but it is necessary as the board has been part of the State's mechanisms for as long as I have been on this Earth, which is approximately 39 years. The Deputy asked about taking properties in charge. If legislative change is required for the concerns raised - I share some of those concerns - I will introduce that legislation. That issue is being worked on now. If there must be a legislative process, I will deal with it.

There were questions about the Water Services Bill. The lifespan of meters is in excess of 40 years, not 15 years. The progress of the Bill will be down to the Whips but I will take Second Stage on Thursday and Friday. It will then go to Committee Stage. I can get an update from the Whips but the Deputy is one of those Whips. The legislation must be in place before 1 January 2015. I am open to whatever is necessary to ensure it gets the time required.

The Deputy asked about targeted investment for housing and "Yes" is the answer. Working with the Department officials, there is a considered approach to the issues arising from this issue. The implementation will be thorough and there will be an oversight group which I will chair, as that is necessary. The targeting of where new housing units are necessary is something on which we have spent a considerable amount of time. There is an acute issue in Dublin and there are issues in the conurbation with which the Deputy would be familiar, as she represents Kildare. We will target investment in areas where there is the most need and demand. I have indicated on numerous occasions that I have given local authority managers considerable time since coming into this position to ensure they could deliver this well-flagged strategy, and I expect them to do so. If they are not prepared to do so, serious questions will be asked. From the information I have, many local authorities are ready to go. The process will be targeted and we have heat maps for the requirements of local authority houses throughout the country. We have heat maps of the maximum amount of interventions across other areas that are progressing, and even in the Dublin area we have heat maps of where we could provide more units.

Deputy Murphy asked about the difference between buying and building. In some cases it will be necessary to purchase units for short-term requirements. One must be straight in that there is a necessity in some cases to buy units because a short-term need must be met. Department officials are working intensely on that issue. Having said that, when considering whether to buy or build, I will always come down on the side of building because this is about increasing supply. In the first couple of years we must get the mix right, as building has a lag time which we must respect, although I am trying to shorten that.

Deputy Murphy asked a question about homelessness. There are a considerable number of actions ongoing in that regard. There are 650 units, what we as politicians know as voids, which are social housing units that are boarded up. They will be brought back into play in the next four to six months across Dublin. On taking this role as Minister with responsibility for housing, I was very uncomfortable driving around this city, which I know well and in which I lived for almost nine years, and seeing local authority houses boarded up. If there was one issue we were going to tackle immediately when I took this role, it was this issue. The local authorities have progressed it significantly. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, who was Minister of State, did considerable work in this regard. Another 650 of these are to be brought into play in the next four to six months.

On housing allocations, because this is a key issue when it comes to homelessness, I have instructed the local authorities, particularly in Dublin, to ensure that 20% of their available allocations will be given towards those who are homeless. It is an acute issue and we need to change the allocation policy to provide for that. I am not sure whether everyone is aware of that. There are 164 extra emergency beds coming on stream in the very near future. That will bring the volume of emergency beds to well in excess of 1,500.

One measure which has worked well and in which regard I thank Threshold, which does great work, is an intervention mechanism which has been in place in Dublin since the end of July or early August and which takes the form of a tenancy sustainment protocol for vulnerable families or individuals who are in danger of losing their accommodation. We have a process working with the local authority whereby Threshold will negotiate with the landlord and work with the local authority to try to ensure that these people are not made homeless. The success rate has been phenomenal - well in excess of 200 - in the cases that have been identified. This has been in place only for a couple of months. I want to see that extended across Dublin through whatever means we can and across other local authorities where there are acute difficulties. We will deal with the acute areas first, across the conurbations of Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford, Kilkenny and so forth. That has been quite successful.

We have increased the budget to deal with homelessness by €10.5 million to in excess of €55.5 million for 2015. I repeat that I am not convinced this is solely an issue of funding. Only last week I gave €4 million to the issues of Dublin. Supply is the key issue in the long term, but we need to ensure that the necessary short-term mechanisms are put in place, and that is my key issue.

The Deputy asked a question about rent supplement, which as the committee will be aware does not come under my remit. Rent supplement is something that is being reviewed. I would not like to say that it is something that is totally dismissed because the Minister is continually reviewing it, but whatever process is put in place, we must ensure that landlords nests are not feathered by any increase of such supplement.

On the work of Threshold in targeting families who are in a vulnerable situation at present, in an absolute majority of cases the rent supplement is increased. Maybe we need to improve the targeting process to get the rent supplements increased, but I would have a concern in principle about merely increasing the rent supplement because rents would probably just increase. I do not want to facilitate an increase in rent. It is not as simple as that. The targeting of how this is done is the critical issue.

To take away Deputy Coppinger's confusion, there are two Bills and one comes before the other. I explained what happened here in relation to the Bills Office. It was merely a human error. Frankly, I was not even aware of it. The Deputy has the Bill in front of her. After Christmas, there will be a further Bill to deal with the issues the Deputy raised in relation to local authorities, landlords, etc.

She will have to await its publication to see its detail, but the principles by which I spoke two weeks ago will remain. Given the timeframe, the Attorney General will deal with a number of issues concerning the Bill.

Regarding homelessness, I am not aware of what the Taoiseach stated in the Dáil. I was not available at the time. Whatever actions will emanate from Thursday will be brought to a Cabinet sub-committee next Monday to be enacted in whatever way necessary. In principle, I have no issue with any Dáil discussion on homelessness. It is just a matter of finding time to facilitate such a debate. I would welcome it, but all of our time is currently being taken up.

The Deputy's statement that there had been no extra capital investment was bizarre. We announced €3.8 billion for implementation and that 35,000 new homes would be put in place. There are a number of ways to bring social housing units that are boarded up back into use. Those units total approximately 2,300. The aim is to lease approximately 11,000 units while building and, to a lesser extent, acquiring-----