James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank members for their questions. I note that Deputy Troy has returned. I will address the terms of reference, which a number of Deputies have raised. The challenge for me and the Department is to set terms of reference that will establish a successful commission of inquiry. We are guided in the first instance by the Oireachtas motion that was agreed earlier this year. We know that at the heart of the desire to get to the truth is the suggestion that bodies of hundreds of children were buried in the mother and baby home in Tuam, County Galway. There is a clear consensus around the need to thoroughly examine the manner in which Ireland treated many mothers who had babies in mother and baby homes. We must give a clear, precise set of terms of reference to the commission to ensure that a wide range of factors relating to mother and baby homes is examined in great detail by the commission. However, if we set the terms incorrectly, the result may be that the commission is robbed of an opportunity to do its work successfully in a timespan that is reasonable and in an efficient manner. I thank Deputy Ó Caoláin for his understanding of the need for thoroughness at this stage.

In the course of meeting with many groups about the establishment of the inquiry, I recognise that there are many issues arising that are wider than the issue of mother and baby homes, but none the less they are issues that people would be keen to include in the commission’s work. I find it difficult to disagree with their view that such issues need to be examined.

If we set terms of reference that are too wide, the commission may be flawed from the start.
The task before me is to try to decide how best to achieve the goals set by the Oireachtas. The commission into mother and baby homes cannot be viewed as a vehicle to inquire into all matters where there was a deficit in the treatment of people. It must be set up to do an achievable task. Should the Oireachtas decide other matters are worthy of separate examinations, such a decision can be reached. The complexity of the issues involved and the need to meet the interested people and stakeholders has given cause to delay, although I do not like using that word, with regard to the expectation that we would have the terms of reference quicker. I agree with Deputy Ó Caoláin that it is better that we do this right than do it quickly. If we do not get it right, we could end up in a protracted tribunal that fails to address the issues the Oireachtas asked us to address. I will not bore committee members with the motion but what the Oireachtas agreed is clear: "to complete the process of identifying the relevant information and records, public and private, pertaining to mother and baby homes in the State in an urgent and timely manner." We can broaden the definition of what constituted a mother and baby home where county homes or other facilities became the provider where there was no mother and baby home in that county. The motion also states the Government should "use the findings of the initial cross-departmental review which is already under way and is to report to the Government no later than 30 June 2014 [which it did] to inform decisions on the scope, format and terms of reference of a commission of investigation; and report back to Dáil Éireann on the establishment of this inquiry, the findings of which should in due course be published before the House rises for the summer recess." We all accepted before the summer recess that this would require more time than originally envisaged. Deputy Robert Troy asked if we would have it before Christmas. It is my intention that we will have it in the next couple of weeks. I want the work to get under way.
The guardianad litem, GAL, issue has been consuming Tusla since its inception and is one that Mr. Gordon Jeyes has been strong on. From previous contributions by me in a different ministerial post, the committee knows of my concern that huge sums of taxpayers' money that should be going to provide services and compensate people who were wronged are going to the legal profession. I bear the legal profession no ill will but this is not what we wanted to happen. We wanted a lean and cost-effective system that leaves the resources to those in need of our support.
The Deputy mentioned it is morally wrong that we have expensive GALs when many children in care have no dedicated social worker or a plan for after-care. The Deputy also mentions the vetting of the GALs. The GAL proposals are being finalised for my consideration and Tusla has made many changes to the structure in regard to the GAL issue. I do not want to become confrontational with Deputy Robert Troy but we inherited it from his party's Government and it has existed for many years and was not addressed. We are going to address this and I would be pleased to have the support of Deputy Robert Troy. Deputy Troy suggests the budget increase is not good enough but that is being disingenuous coming from the party that wrecked the economy of the country and leaves us-----