Colm Burke (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the delegation for the presentation this morning and for all the documentation that we have received. The latter contains a lot of information and I appreciate it being furnished to the committee.

It is important that we acknowledge the work that all of these organisations are doing and the excellent service provided. We are not here today to criticise them, just to make sure that the taxpayer gets value for money.

I have looked at the documentation. It seems the process of bringing order to how we give out money and the type of contracts provided seems to have commenced five years ago. It is only in the past two years that we have been more precise about the contracts offered, documentation and accountability. I tabled my first question on this issue early in September 2013 to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children. A lot of information has been made available to the public since then which is welcome because people did not have the information before.

My next query is on the number of organisations. I understood, from previous questions that I asked, that over 2,600 organisations received HSE funding of one kind or another. This morning we have been told the figure is 1,900 organisations. Please explain why there is a discrepancy of 700 agencies.

We have referred to the payment of managers. What is the ratio of managers and senior managers to the total number of employees in an organisation? My query follows on from a question I asked at a meeting of the health committee. In the reply I got to my question last week, or at our last quarterly meeting, there was quite a disparity. In one organisation the ratio of management to the number of employees was 1.3% whereas in another organisation the figure was 17%. It is fine for us to say we want all of the salaries to comply with what is operated in the HSE. What if one person in a voluntary organisation is doing the jobs of three people? How does that compare with what happens in another organisation? Does it mean we are getting better value for money?

We have looked at the salary issue. Have we looked at the ratio of managerial people to the number of employees and compared that with the level of service offered? We should look at the issue. I know the delegation cannot give me an answer today but it is something that we should keep in mind.

I have an issue with the number of organisations. My information previously was that there were 2,600 organisations but Ms McGuinness has stated here that there are 1,900. Have discussions taken place with any of these groups at any stage? A lot of paperwork and tidying up has been done in the past two to three years and credit is due to everyone involved, both the organisations and HSE. Has it been suggested that some of them could work more closely together and possibly amalgamate in the long-term? We have talked about getting rid of quangos in Departments. Has the following issue been looked at in the HSE? I refer to creating more efficiencies by having more groups or organisations working together, thus getting better value for money.

I wish to touch on the issue of six or seven-year signed contracts for people who work in these organisations. I presume that such contracts cannot be reversed and must last the entire period of the person's employment because there is a no-review clause. I ask the delegation to clarify the issue.

If somebody is earning €125,000 per annum on a fixed contract, and there is a no-review clause allowing the employer to reduce the salary because the level of work the person is required to do is the same as previously, are these agencies then tied by the terms of the contracts for the period of time the person is employed with them? Will the witness further clarify this?