Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left) | Oireachtas source

The Minister made a point about fraud. We have had this debate previously. I believe the Minister places an over-emphasis on fraud and that it is not as bad as she suggests. The vast majority of people are not trying to devise ways to defraud the system. While I have no problem with including mechanisms to reduce the possibilities for defrauding the State, a significant proportion of the €332 million referred to by the Minister is not related to fraud but to errors and accidental overpayments. I was contacted recently by a person who collected his father's old age pension because his father has been ill for a long time. He has been going to the same post office, using ID that was signed by the police. He does not have a passport or driving licence. However, instructions have been sent to An Post from the Department to the effect that if staff do not intervene in cases of suspected fraud, then An Post could be liable for any money lost. As a result, staff in post offices are coming down much more heavily on people, and this individual was refused payment of his father's pension for about five weeks until we intervened on his behalf. When the Department requires organisations to be more diligent and insists that people be required to produce passports or other specific types of identification, that can have knock-on effects. Some balance is needed in this regard.

I ask the Minister to clarify the situation regarding An Post's contract for social welfare payments. Why does the Minister need to change the legislation?