Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I completely agree with Deputy Coffey's assertion of the significant contradictions in the policy positions of various groups. On the one hand they want particular objectives at national level and they regularly discuss with me the reasons I am not doing more in terms of addressing sectoral challenges in meeting targets for climate change, renewable energy or reducing our emissions generally and at the same time, they are the first to protest and object to progress we are trying to make. I agree totally that there is a need for all sides of the debate to reflect on how we will meet our objectives. We cannot have it every way.

The reason for the clean air package and my great interest in it, is the significant evidence of asthma as well as the experience of those of those in public health about the unintended consequences of normal living.

This is well documented. It is in fact documented to the extent that there is an unanswerable case to doing something about it. Why would a Government want to proceed with a policy that would contribute to more people dying? We want to do the reverse. We want to ensure that people have a good quality of life and to save people's lives and keep them out of institutional and expensive care. The target of 58,000 fewer premature deaths relates to all emissions, including from waste management, and how we can contribute to reducing them. Emissions are emissions regardless of from where they come. As such, waste management facilities are included.

On the Deputy's next question, the only thing I can do is cite what happens in Kilkenny. The Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, the local authority and the housing organisations working together and, in the case of the local authorities and housing organisations, using the funding provided by my Department under the retrofit and energy schemes, and in the case of the SEAI, using moneys provided to it by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, have adopted a model through which all the stakeholders can achieve their objectives in respect of local authority housing or community facilities, including the provision of stoves in local authority houses. The 80% rule mentioned by the Deputy already exists but, unfortunately, only in a small number of areas in the country. There is a model of best practice that could be developed that would pay big dividends for householders and go a long way towards meeting our objectives in terms of energy efficiency. Perhaps, the SEAI, which is very involved in this, should be the co-ordinator. However, I believe that working together the local authorities, Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and the housing unit of my Department would be the better co-ordinator and could achieve a more accelerated programme which people would buy into in terms of having more heat in their homes and greater efficiency in terms of the use of that energy.

I agree with the Deputy on the need for common sense in the implementation of our statutory responsibilities at a time of crisis. I have seen at first-hand the issues raised by the Deputy in relation to the River Suir. The system is overly bureaucratic and not fit for purpose in terms of it not being able to deal with crises, leaving people through no fault of their own but owing to unexpected and unintended consequences as a result of weather having to deal with this bureaucracy. This is contributing to a negative view of European directives and some of the organisations in this State dealing with these matters. The National Parks and Wildlife Service needs to review the type of measures it implements in a time of crisis. I recently accompanied Deputy Coffey on a visit to a house which had been flooded and saw first-hand the mayhem and uncertainty for people in terms of what they needed to do or from where they will find the means to provide a home and so on for the following few months. Some cases have taken six or 12 months to resolve. Protocols are required for crisis management. Common sense is a little suspect in regard to matters relative to a crisis, particularly in the context of storm damage and flooding. I will communicate with the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, on how we can get the National Parks and Wildlife Service, the local authorities, the OPW and other stakeholders around the table to work out the protocol for which the Deputy has called and which I fully support.