Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome Mr. Nolan and his senior staff from Bus Éireann and thank him for providing his opening statement in advance.

I am disappointed that as a member of this committee I am not in a position to have had sight of the documents that have been sent to the secretariat by Bus Éireann and the whistleblowers. The committee has taken a decision on legal advise, from which I dissented, not to circulate the documents. It is my belief that this is a fundamental flaw in our system. It impacts negatively on me as a public representative that I am expected to deal with matters that come before me but by the wish of the committee may not look into issues of such a serious nature that have been making headlines in the media, for example, issues on the way taxpayer's money is spent, matters that go to the core of the administration of the State. Notwithstanding the situation that has developed in other institutions of State in the past number of years, some people choose not to learn from these lessons. I am disappointed about that. I will remain within the legal guidelines that have been outlined in spite of my objection to it.

My questions relate only to overall policy matters as I am constrained from dealing with the pertinent issues that Mr. Nolan seems to want to discuss.

In his statement Mr. Nolan states: "The school transport scheme does not make a profit for Bus Éireann". The recently published report conducted by FGS for the Department of Education and Skills looks at the totality of the school transport scheme and in Appendix 4 it discusses Bus Éireann's indirect cost workings. It states that the charges are comprised of direct costs, 13% add-on for other cost recovery, and reasonable profit, depreciation and interest. It goes on to state that the 13% add-on to the direct cost charged to the Department of Education and Skills in the statement of account is intended to provide for direct cost not included in the school account, indirect cost incurred by Bus Éireann, shared indirect costs which provide services for both road passenger and school operations and reasonable profit. The reasonable profit element is to compensate Bus Éireann for other items such as reputational risk, exposure to risk, capital investment risk and so on.

The FGS is a reputable accounting and auditing company and it believes that the Department of Education and Skills is paying Bus Éireann a figure that encompasses a figure for profit. As the Department of Education and Skills published this FGS report, it must be the Department's view also. I am not going to make allegations about how Bus Éireann prepares its accounts, but can Mr. Nolan try to help me in bridging what the FGS report states and what Mr. Nolan said in his opening statement that the school transport scheme does not make a profit for Bus Éireann?

Mr. Nolan explained the difficulties in procurements during the better economic times and that in 2011 the company changed procedures to reflect the 2004 EU directive. Will he give us the detail in percentage terms from 2011 to 2013, inclusive, of the routes awarded in accordance with the 2004 directive?

I wish to deal with the policy matters rather than the specifics of the investigation. Mr. Nolan states that the investigation team reached the conclusion that there was no basis for the allegations, no basis for disciplining any employee and no basis to refer the matter to An Garda Síochána. Further on he states that whereas we cannot categorically deny or conclude that it never happened, there is no evidence to suggest that any gift has been accepted by any individual that breaches the company code of ethics. He further states that information that has come into the public domain in recent times does not add anything to that. Specific allegations have been made in a Sunday newspaper-----