Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I wish to revert to a couple of questions I asked previously. We talked about RAS and how what is being paid is over and above what people are getting in rent supplement. However, Limerick City Council has told the joint committee that landlords are withdrawing from RAS, which also is my experience. I believe this is happening where other options are available. How can housing assistance payment, HAP, work if the payments to landlords are lower than the payments for RAS? This is the point I am trying to ascertain because there is no suggestion that these rent caps will be increased significantly. Indeed, when listening to what the Minister for Social protection has to say, while she has indicated she intends to examine the rent caps, she has not stated she will increase the amount in the overall budget for rent caps. This is a significant issue with regard to making HAP work because the joint committee is going to write a report on HAP.

The second issue pertains to resources and I asked a question in this regard earlier. For example, Limerick is the lead authority on HAP, slightly more than 190,000 people live in Limerick and there are 1,075 staff members. However, 210,000 people live in County Kildare and the local authority has 620 staff members. Resources are not deployed equally around the country and the maintenance of RAS and of leasing is very labour intensive. What is Limerick City Council doing in this regard in terms of HAP and the business plan? This is being put out as being a transformative initiative and I agree that in principle, the idea of people not being caught in a poverty trap is transformative. However, it is of no value if it does not work in reality. The amount that is being allocated for renting these properties and the resources to actually run the scheme are the two critical points and unless they are got right, it will not work.

In one further point, I am pleased this issue of homelessness is being perceived as being wider than simply a Dublin issue. I acknowledge completely that it is a major issue in Dublin but it is an issue outside of that city as well. When one talks about numbers, it tends to only be the Dublin numbers that are counted. I personally am dealing with 14 homeless families this week in my office. It is just crazy stuff.