Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I wish to make a few points before calling Senator Healy Eames. One relates to the point Mr. Tony Donohoe made about apprenticeship education. I worked in the student registrations section of Dublin Institute of Technology in Bolton Street many years ago. A student there who was doing a postgraduate course had started out in Bolton Street as an apprentice. He then did a night course and completed a certificate and diploma. He then studied full-time, got his degree and went into a postgraduate course. That is the way our education system should be and I hope the new technological universities will retain that. The institutes of technology, including DIT, are particularly good in that regard. Perhaps Professor Norton would discuss the role of apprenticeship and how he envisages that in his vision for the future.

The second issue is fees. Is the funding available to establish these new technological universities? Is there a need for extra funding for that? That is one issue, and there is also the issue of funding in general. My view is that we must bury the idea that tuition fees would be reintroduced and work from the assumption that they will not. Then people should knock their heads together about that. What is stalling the debate is this prospect or hope, which some people have, that there might be fees or loans, as Deputy Griffin suggests. I believe it is stalling a proper look at the issue. That is probably a political point.

The Association of County and City Councils made a submission about the need for democratic representation on the new boards for the technological universities. I agree with that. It is already in the system and councillors would represent the communities. Does anybody have a view on that aspect? It is something the committee will examine in its report. Does anybody wish to comment on the issue of social inclusion? Is that a very important element and should it be addressed in the legislation? Are there any gaps in the legislation that must be filled? We can make recommendations on that in our report, which we will produce shortly.

Finally, there is a political point. Mr. John MacGabhann's point about level 8 being the same in all institutions is very valid, but would he not say the same for the junior certificate, FETAC level 3? One of the arguments against the junior certificate reforms is that there would be different standards in different schools. Could one not make the same argument in that regard?