Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the members. I will reply in a general way on the legislative programme because everybody has raised it. There were two legislative developments that were additional to the original legislative programme: the preschool changes in the Child and Family Agency Act 2013 and this week’s Adoption (Amendment) Bill 2013 to address an urgent situation regarding Russian adoptions. The Child and Family Agency Act was a major piece of work and was prioritised to meet the target date of 1 January 2014 for the establishment of the agency.

The children Bill was at a very advanced stage. It was interrupted by events in the High Court which meant it was necessary to introduce provisions for remission, as members know, and this requires review of the legislative provisions in the existing Bill and criminal justice legislation. However, that is at an extremely advanced stage. Some final details and any implications that court decision would have in terms of regime change for detention must be dealt with.

The revised heads of the Children First Bill were agreed and drafting is very advanced. We have had some discussions on the sanctions that will apply and have had to have much interaction with the Attorney General’s office on co-ordination, which we always knew would be an issue, between the sanctions and the withholding of information legislation, which the Minister for Justice and Equality introduced over a year ago. Our current discussions are centred on finalising that issue so that there is a perfect match between the two, because we cannot have different sanctions on the withholding of information. A huge amount of work is being done. It is very advanced, and very early in the new year we will be in a position to circulate the final Bill to Government and introduce it into the House.

On the adoption (information and tracing) Bill, my intention all along was to have legislation that is as broad as possible in terms of people’s ability to access information. The most up-to-date legal advice and the European legislation that has emerged in this area tell me that there are very significant constraints on how much historic information related to the birth mother can be shared where a mother has not given consent. There is a constitutional barrier there as well as European legislation, and the implications are restrictive. Many people will be disappointed with that. I am disappointed because I favour as much open adoption as possible. People need and have a right to as much information as possible on their identities. For the future we can make that very straightforward in legislation but historically there is a major problem. I have asked the Chairman of this committee to hold hearings on this as soon as the legislation is ready to go in the public arena, because there will be major public interest in it. People must understand very clearly that there is no wish on my part or that of the Department to restrict access but that there are very serious constitutional issues. The public needs a good-quality discussion on that and I hope the committee will be able to facilitate it. The heads of that Bill will go to committee in the new year and the committee will decide how to proceed.

Deputy Troy made a number of points, one of which was on the development of the child and family agency. The task force gave us a vision and we had to decide how to proceed. I have already gone into much detail about the agencies that will come under the new child and family agency on 1 January 2014. Protocols will have to be agreed to outline very clearly the relationship between the new agency and the mental health services and public health nurses, and there must be a very close relationship between them. Members will appreciate the amount of negotiation that has already taken place on the transition. Exactly what elements of those services should ideally transfer to the agency will require detailed discussion and negotiation, and there are very different views on it. For example, some people working in the child and adolescent mental health area feel those services need to be aligned mostly with adult psychiatry as opposed to children’s services in a child and family agency. I believe there must be a very close working relationship between those child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, and the agency if we are to give the best services to children and families.

Last week I met many of the agencies and advocacy groups working in this area to discuss these issues. We have a long way to go in terms of key working relationships. Some good progress is being made. There are some very good initiatives regarding children in care who are being worked with by the adolescent mental health services. The mental health services can work with the new agency in a range of ways, including consultation and direct service, but the young people in contact with the new agency should have very quick access to mental health services and must be a priority for the mental health services.

This links to another question Senator van Turnhout asked about how we will align priorities between the new agency and other services. We will need protocols to begin with about the relationships. I am trying to bring in all the services that were recommended in the first instance. It was felt that would involve a great deal of negotiation with the nursing associations and all the other bodies involved. In terms of the scale of the agency we decided the appropriate way was to proceed in the manner in which we have done. We will be very closely examining the relationship between the agency and the public health nurses and will begin to examine how we can move forward in terms of closer co-operation, new protocols and, perhaps, seeing closer links between the two agencies. We should return to this because, following on from my meeting with the advocacy groups, representatives of CAMHS and other mental health services and the HSE last week, there are some very interesting initiatives and ways forward we can develop in the meantime.

I have dealt with the issue on the grant to Early Childhood Ireland on a number of occasions. It is very common for Departments to allocate grants to various organisations and it has started that training. I have given a detailed reply on mentoring. Some thinking has been done within the Department as to how this service might be organised. We envisage a national service with mentors assigned to geographic areas. The Department will be consulting key stakeholders, including Pobal, the child and family agency, the city and county child care committees and the wider sector, in the coming weeks. We will do a round table discussion with all those stakeholders to get their best thinking on how this service should be delivered. It should be a national service with a fair geographic spread. It also means some of the people who have done further training in child care will get opportunities to use that training in developing and professionalising the services.

Members asked about the 2014 budget allocation. The 2014 allocation will have to do solely with 2014 expenditure and will not have to address historic deficits. The Revised Estimates were published yesterday and it will be €602 million in current and €7 million in capital. From 1 January 2014 the board will have 30 days to submit a business plan for the Minister's consideration. Early in the new year I will set out the three year performance framework, following which the board will develop a three year corporate plan. That is laid out in legislation. There are many demands on the services, as we know. There are proportionately more children in the population and more children coming into care.

Deputy Troy began his contribution by speaking about alcohol and addiction issues. The number of young children coming into care from families where addiction is a very serious issue is very striking. The same is happening in the UK. The UK legislation is very strong on giving those children a second chance as opposed to constantly returning them to families where there are serious addiction issues. We must examine very seriously the best interests of the child in many of these situations and see what decision, from both a court point of view and a practice point of view, gives these children the best opportunity. Some children are in very difficult situations where child care services are helping by keeping them in the service for most of the day and in the evening returning them to families struggling with addiction. There are concerns and those cases must be followed very carefully.

Deputy Troy mentioned the current situation. If people take court cases, they must be heard and there is a timeframe. The High Court ruled very favourably on the situation just a view weeks ago. Another element of that case has just been heard and the Supreme Court will give its determination in due course. It is expected around April and the legalities will be finalised then, but I prefer not to comment as I am a party to those legal proceedings.

My private secretary delivered a letter to Deputy Ó Caoláin's pigeon hole last week in reply to the question he raised on Rath na nÓg, so I do not know what happened to that letter. I apologise if he did not receive it. It disappeared somewhere en routefrom my office to the Deputy's pigeon hole. I have a copy of the letter here. We can follow that up after the meeting.