Mr. Jim Breslin:

A cross-campus roster has been talked about, but it is not always obvious what that means from a practical point of view. For example, in our eight-bed unit for girls there are often only two girls, as is the case currently. Before we had the cross-campus roster, the staff assigned to the girls' unit would stay assigned to it regardless of the number of children in the unit. Therefore, a unit would be fully staffed even with only one or two girls in residence. Now we have the ability to deploy staff on a daily basis. The staffing of individual units is set according to the need and number of children and young people present. The initiative has opened up operational efficiencies and allowed us to try to be more efficient.

There are further operational efficiencies to be exploited in that roster. We put it in place in February. That does not mean it is ideal. We are working with staff to try to identify every area we can address within that and iron out any difficulties. We have had a very good opportunity from 1 July, as the Haddington Road agreement provides for additional hours for every public servant. It brings all staff on the campus up to 39 hours per week. We have additional hours within which to staff that roster and that will give us further scope.

The other element the Minister mentioned is that we have staff who are off the payroll. They may be on long-term sick leave, as sick leave is an issue in Oberstown, or they may have taken a career break, etc. Currently, we are trying to come up with some solutions which would bring additional staff on to the campus to fill those positions. We hope to do that in the short term as well as look at some temporary solutions which would bring the staffing numbers up.

All of that is designed to get the Trinity House school up to full operational capacity - that is, eight beds. Even when we do that, one of the issues with a detention school is that if one provides a number of beds, the beds fill up. Even with eight beds, it is important that every other alterative to the detention of a child is looked at. Just because there is a bed there it does not mean it should be filled. Even when we get to eight, which will provide additional capacity, it might not provide all the capacity in the world. If we were to keep increasing the capacity, the fear is that we would pull more children into the campus. We have to get the balance right and make sure all the staff and the resources on the campus are efficiently deployed. We also have to make sure there are solutions in place which mean we can divert children from having to be detained in the first place. We have to work on both of those issues and not lose sight of them.

On the question of sick leave, it was, and is, a problem on the campus. It is not specifically related to the arrival of the 16 year olds and I would not like it to be seen as that. Sixteen year olds were detained in Oberstown before the Minister made the change, and that was as a result of children being sent in at 15 years of age and remaining there until 16 or 17 years of age if the period of detention was sufficiently long. I would not ascribe the sick leave issues on the campus to the 16 year olds. That would be pointing the finger in the wrong direction. We are seeking to address and reduce sick leave.

Similarly, in regard to training, when I visited Oberstown first, I was heartened by the extent of the qualifications of the staff there. The reason we want to move children and young people out of St. Patrick's is that we have care staff in Oberstown who are qualified and trained to look after children and young people. They have very good skills. We are looking at how we can further address that and further develop policies, procedures and training on an ongoing basis to try to support and help staff.

The board of management, which the Minister mentioned, has been working closely with staff to try to build a vision for Oberstown. It is looking at the major endorsement it has got from the Government by way of a €50 million capital approval and trying to construct something of which we can be proud in the offering for children and young people who must be detained. The establishment of the assessment, consultation and therapy service, ACTS, team to deal with children's mental health issues on the campus is further evidence of that. The type of work involved is to try to build a culture in Oberstown which is very much focused on children and young people. For example, last year, there was an intensive set of four workshops for the board of management and all of the staff on the campus to try to work on a set of actions that would try to move us towards that vision. That is continuing to receive attention.

The campus manager is a key post in any service. The leader sets the tone and to have one unified leader on the campus allows us to start to further break down the barriers between the three schools. The recruitment and calibre of that person will be very important in trying to build the culture we are trying to build.