Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin North Central, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Yes. I thank the Minister for attending the committee and I apologise for being late. Four of us were over in Finland last week. It was fascinating to see the difference between what we have - which is effectively a State-funded system - and what they have, which is a State system. In Finland, all children in a particular school district attend the one school. It was interesting to see that children there do not start school until seven years of age. They stay in the one continuum of education from seven to 16, so that the traumatic transfer to second level does not necessarily take place. It was also interesting to hear some of the buzz-words they were using, such as "trust". Teachers are trusted because they have a high standard of education themselves and all have masters degrees. There is not a big inspection regime and there only seems to be one state exam at the age of 19.

I deliberately asked what they would think of a system which had girls and boys being taught in separate schools, and all wearing school uniforms. I got the predictable response of puzzled faces looking at each other and asking, "Where is this place that you speak of?" It was Ireland, of course.

We had a meeting with the Finnish Parliament's education and culture committee. A conservative MP told us we had to understand that the most important thing about the Finnish education system was equality. While Finland is an interesting dynamic, we need to address a few things in the Irish education system. Deputy O'Brien rightly referred to back-to-school costs, including school books. As regards the relationship between the State, the Department and patrons, at what stage can we encourage patron bodies to have a more active role in running individual schools and in policies?

We have a problem with an over-supply of primary teachers. The new Hibernia College is churning out a huge number of highly qualified teachers but there are no jobs for them. There seems to be no level of regulation, so does the Minister have a comment to make about it? It is unfair to have a system that produces so many teachers when there will never be enough jobs for them, regardless of budgetary measures that change from year to year.

There is a huge volume of work involved, given the list of reforms that are taking place. The junior cycle is a great reform and the focus on literacy is very important.

The issue of fee-paying schools is quite current and the report has only just been released. The Minister may not wish to comment on it but the report has debunked the simplistic argument that if expenditure on subventing teachers in those schools was withdrawn it would save us €90 million. The Minister has been increasing the pupil-teacher ratio in those schools over a period of years. I suggest that such a progression over the years would ease the reliance of those schools on the State, but there will come a tipping point for many schools which may find themselves going into the State system.

We have to talk about teacher morale. I visit schools regularly and talk to principals and teachers there. For whatever reason, they feel as if the political system, the media or society in general does not appreciate them, does not feel they do a good job or feels they are not worth the money or holidays they receive. That is a complete contrast to what we discovered in Finland. Perhaps Irish teachers have always felt this way but particularly in recent years - I do not think it is particular to this Government or the previous one - they have felt undervalued by society. It is difficult to drive reforms if people are not coming on board and are not empowered by the process.

At what stage can we have a quantifiable status as to how successful, or otherwise, the national literacy strategy has been? These strategies are put in place - often with the best will in the world and for justifiable reasons - with major research behind them but we need to be sure we are doing the right thing. Is there a strategy in place to take account of what is being done and achieved, and whether we are going the right way about it?