John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Arising from the comments of Deputy Sean Fleming, the departmental officials and congress, I was taken by the fact that Mr. Cody and other representatives told us there was no consultation with unions and that the implementation body did not consult unions in local government and across the sector. We seem to be heading down a road where management is examining the allowances and has received what it terms business cases, although I would not describe them as business cases. I said to congress earlier that I was shocked it was not consulted in the provision of information for the business cases. Congress might have had concerns about the payment of the allowance, the type of the allowance and how it was viewed in terms of core pay. Congress might have had concerns about how the allowance was described. Some of the allowances are very poorly described. There was no consultation with unions. The plan seems to be extended day-to-day. There is no central plan and the Department seems to be working on it as it goes along. We were told there were 1,100 allowances and now further allowances have emerged in the local government sector, which we did not consider. The unions have still not been asked about this. Ms King was quite clear that the issue of the allowances would be fought tooth and nail, with a view to keeping the allowances because they form part of core pay. If the Department was setting out on the correct path, it should have established this in the first place so that we do not have a hearing of the Committee of Public Accounts, followed by engagement with unions that is now taking place, and all of it amounting to nothing. The Department identified some allowances that had been agreed, tested in the Labour Court and acknowledged as part of core pay. Nevertheless, some of these allowances are listed in the review. Today, Ms Tallon tells us that in the case of 14 of the allowances, business cases were made to the Department and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has instructed local government bodies to pay them.

Is the plan to review these allowances not completely flawed on the side of the Department, because the other main player, the unions, was never consulted? From the hearings we have been engaged in, we find the allowances are all paid to the low-paid workers. Parallel to this process, approval has been given for 12. How many other approvals have been issued? Without waiting for the full examination of the allowances and the determination of this committee, for example, or the Department's process, decisions are being made. How are the unions taking that decision?