Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 19 September 2012

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection

Budget 2013: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills

10:35 am

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister and I appreciate his array of slides which have proved helpful. They support the case that he has made for a long time about the increase in student numbers. He has a strong case because he has 95,000 whole-time equivalent staff in the system and in 2013 there will be 1,235 extra staff needed at primary and second level and more than 4,000 extra students at third level. Providing a service for all of this will come at an enormous cost to the system and yet he needs to find €77 million. On his behalf I shall plant a few seeds in the mind of the Minister for Finance by saying that the Minister for Education and Skills should be asked to make a smaller reduction. Obviously, I can see the dilemma that he is faced with because 78% of his budget is spent on pay and pensions which only leaves him with 22% to pay for the service. Unless there is a service provided there will be no education. I ask him to examine the strong case that he can make for a smaller reduction.

The Minister indicated that the allocation for teacher pay costs may be under pressure. I ask him to elaborate a little on that comment, specifically, allowances and increments, which are the elephant in the room. What percentage of the pay bill is allocated towards allowances and increments? The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, did a very bad job on allowances yesterday. Although I am in favour of protecting pay, this should not necessarily include allowances and increments. I made a case to the Fine Gael Parliamentary Party on the issue of increments, about which Deputy Harris has also spoken, in which I argued against paying increments to staff in the public service earning more than €55,000 per annum. I ask the Minister to justify the payment of increments to staff earning more than that figure in a recession. I chose the figure of €55,000 after consulting Social Justice Ireland and the Conference of Religious of Ireland, CORI, on poverty-proofing a family of two adults and four children, which is a relatively large family by today's standards. I ask the Minister to comment on the issue of increments.

There has been speculation that the Minister will consider increasing the length of the school day and school year to achieve better efficiencies in the system. One may ask how this will save money, although I accept it could have an effect on teacher performance. However, primary school children may not have the capacity to learn more if the school day is extended. I know this from personal experience. I accept that extending the school day at secondary level could result in more classes being taught. Other than teacher performance issues, how would such a measure save money?

Over the weekend, the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, agreed a deal with hospital consultants, the group that enjoys the highest levels of pay in the health service. Has the Minister considered trying to secure a similar deal with senior lecturers, university heads and other staff in third level education who earn in excess of €100,000 per annum?

Does the Minister envisage increasing the pupil-teacher ratio this year, a measure that would result in further cuts in teacher numbers? Last year was very difficult, particularly in small rural schools. I am aware that a plan is in place in this regard and do not expect the Minister to return to this issue as it may be a red-line issue. Does the Minister envisage introducing further cuts in teacher numbers this year?

I seek clarification on one further minor matter. Referring to the rate of capitation at second level, the Minister alluded to a school services support fund of €201 per pupil. What precisely is this fund?

The allocation for the literacy and numeracy strategy is €7 million in 2012 and €6 million in 2012. How is this money spent? What extra benefits does it deliver to schools?

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