Mr. Jack O'Connor:

Deputy Lyons made the point that if the entire stimulus proposal put forward by SIPTU had been implemented - I hope it will still be implemented - it would have resulted in 30,000 jobs.

However, I was attempting to make a somewhat different point to which there are two elements. First, we need to continue insisting on pointing out that one-sided austerity is not working. If we lapse into a space where we are talking in a context whereby we take that as accepted, then we are in a cul de sac. Second, while we should continue trying to persuade the troika and those with whom we are dealing to face the reality and give countries some space - maybe they are coming around in Europe but the problem is how long it will take - we should be focusing on what we can do in the domestic economy to stimulate domestic demand. The danger of debates and discussions which focus on supply-side remedies to the exclusion of that is that we are not thinking innovatively about these matters. While it is a narrow space, there are some levers to hand. It is our assertion that there is more potential in the combination of levers that could be available to us - what could be leveraged and what could be incentivised - than that which is being realised at present and we should always focus on that before we talk about anything else.

We are in favour of the job guarantee concept in principle. We have put forward proposals and I imagine we will reiterate them in pre-budget submissions on social and community-based enterprise schemes which we previously set out in some detail. On the medium to longer term, we have articulated the case for a flexicurity framework around the nature of work today, etc. We fully acknowledge that excellent work is being undertaken by Forfás, as outlined. We do not for a moment suggest that we should not be doing all of these things. We would highlight the point that when one considers the proportion of German students who enter apprenticeships vis-à-visour preoccupation with academic qualifications which are not always of great value, there is a need for intervention at the career guidance level to advise young people in these matters. We need to invest a great deal more at that level so that students are not being streamed into courses that take them to no man's land.

Deputy Tóibín referred to the German approach to supporting job retention. This was critical in the 2008-09 period with the mittelstand. The way the Germans supported the mittelstandgave them an enormous advantage once they got towards the end of 2009. We decided to go the other way and shed jobs all over the place, which was a tragedy.

Lastly, whereas we do not disagree in principle with the emphasis on mathematics and science, there is a tendency in Ireland to swing from one extreme to the other. Apart from the social value, we need to bear in mind the economic potential of culture and the academic disciplines that must be developed to promote that. We still have some advantages in Ireland in that regard in which there is some potential. It is not about disagreeing but it is about perhaps making the point that we need to get the balance right.