Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this important item. I and my colleagues in Fianna Fáil support the retention of the 4th Western Brigade and its headquarters status in Custume Barracks, Athlone. Reforms of the Defence Forces should not be done in isolation or on a piecemeal basis. Any reforms should be carried out within the framework of the Green Paper, whereby all interested parties would be consulted.

I accept there is no threat to close Custume Barracks and that the only people using this line are Government members who are doing so as a smoke-screen to cover up the real issue at hand. The decision to reduce the number of brigades from three to two was that of the Minister for Defence, Deputy Shatter. I am disappointed he did not have the courtesy to attend this debate. It was he who wrote to the chief of the Defence Forces in December seeking a report on the reduction. He has received this report and I believe an announcement is imminent.

Is the 4th Western Brigade for the chop according to the report? If so, what will be the strength of the remaining units? Can the Minister of State name the units that will remain in Custume Barracks, Athlone? Can he confirm that the 600 personnel currently linked to the Western Brigade in Athlone could be relocated? Does he realise the considerable economic impact this would have not only on the town of Athlone but also on the much wider midlands area? The local chamber of commerce has predicted an economic loss in the region of €24 million annually.

Does the Minister of State realise just how severely the 4th Western Brigade has been hit, with barracks closing in Mullingar, Longford, Cavan and Lifford, to name but a few? Does he not agree that the central location of Athlone is ideal for headquarters of any future brigade?

Possibly the most important issue concerns the Army personnel and their families. I refer to the men and women who have dedicated their lives to service to the town, region and country. The manner in which the Government is treating them is nothing short of appalling and scandalous. There is considerable anxiety and worry and nothing is being done by the Government to alleviate the fear.

I ask the Minister of State to defer any decision and work within the framework of the Green Paper, which is included in the programme for Government. He should make a commitment on the floor of this House that the Minister for Defence and the Taoiseach will meet a delegation from those who attended the recently held public meeting, a selection of Oireachtas Members and representatives from Athlone Town Council, not just to engage in some cosmetic exercise but to engage in a meaningful manner to ensure the future of Custume Barracks and the headquarters status of the 4th Western Brigade.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me time to discuss this very important matter, namely, the need for the Minister for Defence, in light of the ongoing scare-mongering regarding the downgrading of Custume Barracks, Athlone, and the rumours relating to the 4th Western Brigade, to confirm his statement that there will be no downgrading of the barracks or job losses in Athlone. I acknowledge the considerable contribution and effort of my constituency colleague Deputy Nicky McFadden to save the facility in Athlone. She raised this at the parliamentary party meeting and at every available opportunity, not only this year but also over the past four or five years. She has made a considerable contribution towards obtaining in the region of €6 million to upgrade services in Athlone over the past four or five years.

It is essential to put to rest the very calculated political rabble-rousing that is seeking to cause fear and anger in the area, which has already shouldered more than its fair share of economic fallout. My primary consideration at all times is to ensure that Custume Barracks will continue to operate in its present capacity. My colleague and I will fight any proposal to close or downgrade the barracks, or carry out any threat against the 4th Western Brigade. They are vital to the economic and social profile of Athlone and must be retained. The barracks has been a feature of Athlone life since 1697.

I welcome the opportunity to share time with my constituency colleague Deputy Troy. I hope we are united in this matter for the good of our constituents, and not for personal gain for a political party. I am here to address the growing consensus in County Westmeath that the future of Custume Barracks and the 4th Western Brigade are at risk. However, I am determined to put what are merely rumours to rest. With politically motivated scaremongering raising fear and anger in an area already hard-hit by the economic downturn and credence being provided to those only too willing to believe there is no smoke without fire, I am anxious that assurance be given by the Minister of State, on behalf of the Minister for Defence, that Custume Barracks will be upgraded, not downgraded. I want him to confirm that there will be no job losses in Athlone.

In my dealings with the Minister, I have found him to be honest and fair at all times. His door is open to the Deputies from my constituency with regard to the well-being of the Defence Forces and the people living within the communities in which Defence Forces personnel are based. His record stands in regard to the open way in which he dealt with and facilitated the purchase of Connolly Barracks, Longford, by the local authority for the use of the people.

In the interest of our constituents in Athlone, I ask Deputy Troy to support Deputy McFadden and me in maintaining a calm, rational approach to the issue, which has been stirred up by the extreme elements through the use of false facts etc. The Minister has already given assurance. We want the rumours put to rest this evening. I hope he will reinforce his position and offer us reassurance.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputies Bannon and Troy for raising this issue. The Minister, Deputy Shatter, regrets that he is unable to address this topical issue as he is officiating at a citizenship ceremony this afternoon in the Convention Centre Dublin. I believe the Deputies will accept his apologies.

As the Deputies are aware, arising from the Government's comprehensive review of expenditure, the strength ceiling of the Permanent Defence Force, PDF, was reduced to 9,500 personnel. In response to this reduced strength ceiling, the Minister initiated a major reorganisation of the Defence Forces, both permanent and reserve. This reorganisation will encompass a reduction in the number of Army brigades from the current three to two.

A three-brigade structure was originally introduced during the 1990s when the strength ceiling of the PDF was revised to approximately 11,500 personnel. It was retained when the strength ceiling of the PDF was reduced to 10,500 as part of the White Paper on Defence, 2000. However, it is no longer viable to retain a three-brigade structure within a revised PDF strength ceiling of 9,500 personnel.

The priority is on maintaining the operational effectiveness of the Permanent Defence Force to the greatest extent possible, within the reduced strength ceiling. This will be achieved through rationalising administrative and support functions and rebalancing force elements. The reorganisation builds upon and complements the efficiencies arising from recent barracks closures and, as the Minister has repeatedly stated, no further barracks closures are required. There will, of course, be movement of functions and personnel within and between barracks, as provided for in the Croke Park agreement.

The Secretary General of the Department of Defence and the Chief of Staff are identifying approaches to reducing the number of Army brigades from the current three to two. The Minister has received an agreed interim report from the Secretary General and the Chief of Staff and it has been his stated preference to await the submission of final proposals before making any announcements. Unfortunately, there is an ongoing campaign of misleading speculation about Custume Barracks, Athlone, raising unnecessary concerns locally about the barracks and going so far as to suggest that the removal of the brigade headquarters would result in some 600 personnel being withdrawn from the barracks. Reform is challenging in itself, particularly for the personnel directly affected, and this negative speculation is unhelpful.

To counter this negative campaign and support the completion of the preparatory work, the Minister finds it necessary to clarify the position with regard to Custume Barracks. I can confirm that the brigade headquarters for the two new brigades will be located in Cork and Dublin. However, I can also confirm that within an overall strength of 9,500 the numbers serving in Custume Barracks will be of the order of 1,000 personnel.

When the Government came in to office in March 2011, there were approximately 900 personnel in Custume Barracks and there are currently approximately 1,050 personnel in the barracks. Consequently, the new arrangements with regard to the brigade will have no dramatic impact on the numbers in Custume Barracks. The Minister is disappointed at the necessity to announce decisions on the re-organisation before being in a position to outline the final outcome in its totality.

Work is ongoing to finalise proposals on the remainder of the re-organisation. The Minister will be in a position to address questions of detail on completion of this work. The representative associations will be fully consulted on all matters that fall within the scope of representation when this work is complete.

Nicky McFadden (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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That is not good.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Work is also ongoing with regard to recommendations for the Reserve Defence Force, which must dovetail with the recommendations of the ongoing value for money review.

The re-organisation affirms the Government's intention that the Defence Forces retain the capacity to fulfil all of its assigned roles to the greatest extent possible. The Minister looks forward to working closely with the Chief of Staff and the Secretary General in implementing the re-organisation and the broader reform agenda.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State's reply is extremely disappointing, to say the least. I suppose he drew the short straw because he has had to give such devastating news to the House. There are 1,400 plus soldiers attached to Custume Barracks in Athlone, when one includes personnel serving overseas, yet the ceiling will be 1,000 according to the Minister of State. A calculator is not required to work out that there will be 400 fewer soldiers initially. It is the first time in the history of the State that there will not be a Commander-General there. A minimum of 400 soldiers will be moving from Athlone, which will result in a loss of €20 million to the local economy.

The Green Paper review is a total sham. The Government is reforming the Defence Forces in isolation and on a piecemeal basis. The review, which was part of the programme for Government, is a sham. What has this Government got against Westmeath? It closed Columb Barracks in Mullingar and is now downgrading Custume Barracks in Athlone. The Minister of State said the numbers went up in Athlone in the past 12 months, but that happened because barracks were closed in Mullingar and Cavan. What has the Government got against Westmeath?

As part of its consultation process, the Government should confirm that the west will be losing the Western Brigade headquarter status, which is in the Taoiseach's own area. What does the Taoiseach have to say about that?

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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The Deputy must conclude. I call Deputy Bannon.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Minister for Defence meet with interested parties? It is disgraceful if he will not do so.

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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Deputy Troy should not overrun like that.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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This is a black day for the midlands, including Athlone, coming on top of the closure of barracks in Longford, Cavan and Athlone. I am disappointed that the 4th Western Brigade is now to be taken out of the midlands area. Dublin is not the geographical heart of this country. It is time for the "Dublin is best" mentality to be stopped by the Government. I want to see it stopped because the midlands has suffered more than its fair share from the economic fallout.

Fianna Fáil closed Longford Barracks and in its Green Paper it had plans to close Mullingar barracks as well.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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You closed it.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I am disappointed that all Army services in the midlands have been attacked. I appeal to the Minister of State to ask the Minister for Defence to put this mater on hold until the Minister and the Taoiseach have an opportunity to meet with the chamber of commerce in Athlone and other people who are serious affected, including families, shops and businesses. This is the equivalent of taking two major industries out of the midlands. We cannot accept that, so I plead with the Minister of State to ask the Minister to act urgently on this matter. The Minister should be made aware of our concerns that we are unhappy with the decision that has been taken.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Troy said I drew the short straw but I will face up to my responsibilities as Minister of State in the Department of Defence. This is not about drawing short straws. If the previous Government had acted more frugally when it was in power we would not be in this position now.

Custume Barracks in Athlone will have in the order of 1,000 personnel when changes are made to the brigade structure. Therefore, there are no huge losses or anything.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State is wrong about that.

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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Allow the Minister of State to continue.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Currently there are 1,050 personnel in Custume Barracks, Athlone.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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No.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I can assure the House that there will be in the order of 1,000 personnel in it when the changed brigade structure comes into effect. The Deputy is frightening the general public in Athlone when he says there will be job losses and no expenditure. I can assure him that that will not be the case. The previous Government closed down a fair few barracks in its time. The Deputy should think back to that time, but we now have to make changes.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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That is your choice. It is not only me, the Minister of State should talk to his colleagues sitting behind him.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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We have to make changes, including reducing personnel to 9,500. We must make operational changes within that figure.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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What has the Minister of State got against Westmeath?

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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Please Deputy, you got your opportunity.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I did not interrupt the Deputy. The Minister's preference was to await the final views of the Chief of Staff and the Secretary General before announcing any reorganisation in its totality. As a result of the scaremongering that was carried out by some people, and I am sure the Deputy did a fair bit of it himself-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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That is where the Minister of State is wrong.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I understand that is politics and he has a good teacher up there telling him how to do it.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I left school a good few years ago. I have no teachers.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The information provided today will address concerns raised about Custume Barracks. The future of Custume Barracks in Athlone is very safe.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The people behind him are not too happy.

Nicky McFadden (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I do not want the Deputy to say that the future of Custume Barracks is unsure, because I can assure him it is safe.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The brigade is gone.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge that the barracks will not close but the headquarters brigade staff have gone.

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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Please Deputy.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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There will be in the order of 1,000 personnel in Custume Barracks when the reorganisation of the brigade structure is put into operation and the changes are finally made.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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One again, Dublin wins.