Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 400 and 401 together.

I am committed to ongoing engagement with former residents of Mother and Baby Institutions and their advocates. I have directly engaged with survivors and advocacy groups since my appointment and will continue to engage with those most centrally involved with these matters.

As I have acknowledged previously, plenary meetings of Collaborative Forum were unfortunately interrupted by the Covid-19 pandemic. Having met in December 2019, it was necessary to put these meetings on hold in 2020 in the context of the public health restrictions as a number of members travel from outside the jurisdiction and some members are also in the at-risk groups identified by public health authorities.  

Throughout 2020, members of the Forum were updated on relevant matters by the Forum Secretariat based in my Department. In 2021, there was engagement with the Forum via my Department in relation to an invitation to appear before the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children, Equality, Disability and Integration in relation to the pre-legislative scrutiny of the General Scheme of the then Institutional Burials Bill. I was pleased to see the Committee directly engage with members of the Collaborative Forum on this historic legislation.

I held two virtual meetings with members of the Collaborative Forum in February 2021 to share developments in the State’s response to the Commission’s report and to engage on matters of concern to members. A proposed new structure to support wider stakeholder engagement was a specific agenda item. Further discussions on this issue were independently facilitated with Forum members during 2021, and feedback resulting from this process has assisted in refining proposals which I hope to bring to Government shortly. 

I also met with the Collaborative Forum on the 22nd of March this year to update members on the progress being made in advancing key initiatives in the published Action Plan for Survivors and Former Residents of Mother and Baby and County Home Institutions. We discussed specific matters of concern to the Forum, including the significant legislative programme being progressed as part of the Action Plan and arrangements for publication of the Forum’s report.

Publication of the Forum’s report had to initially await the publication of the Commission’s report. For this reason, the Forum's recommendations were initially published and a commitment was given to revisit the question of publication following the completion of the Commission's work. Thereafter, acting on legal advice, the Department commenced a right of reply process to ensure relevant parties named in the report were afforded due process prior to publication. I can confirm that this necessary process has been concluded, thereby enabling my Department to seek further advices from the Attorney General’s Office with a view to publication.

I will contact the Collaborative Forum directly in advance of any arrangements being made for publication of the submitted report. 

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Following publication of the Final Report of the Commission of Investigation, I listened to the disappointment of some survivors when the Report of the Confidential Committee did not live up to their expectations. This included the concerns expressed directly to me by members of the Collaborative Forum in relation to the treatment of survivor testimony. Although care was taken in the design of the Confidential Committee component to try and allow the truth as survivors wanted it told to emerge, I recognise that this has not happened for many of them. I acknowledge the deep hurt which this has caused.

I had previously indicated the possibility of a review of the testimony offered to the Confidential Committee. Having considered the matter, and recognising the independent analysis subsequently submitted to me by the Special Rapporteur as part of his annual report, I believe that a new initiative to support survivors in telling their personal account provides the best opportunity for responding to their call to be heard in their own words. In developing this initiative, I am mindful of the continuing influence of the legal framework provided by the Oireachtas to facilitate and direct the Commission’s work, and the value of providing a new opportunity to survivors who may wish to share their lived experiences.

My Department is currently working on proposals for this new process. In developing this new initiative my officials are consulting with relevant legal and technical experts and, most importantly, will consult with survivors. Specific proposals will be brought to Government for approval this year.

It is intended that the initiative will focus on respectful recording and acknowledgement of lived experiences rather than being inquisitorial in approach.  The scheme will be underpinned by statute and operate on a voluntary basis, with personal accounts received and utilised with the consent of participants. It will be overseen by a team with expertise in human rights, trauma and memory, communications and oral history.

As this new approach will not be limited to those who participated in the Confidential Committee element of the Mother and Baby Homes Commission of Investigation, it can provide a voluntary opportunity for all survivors who may wish to have their personal experience acknowledged as part of the national record. Those who previously recounted their experiences to the Confidential Committee will have the option of permitting the reuse of this testimony and/or offering new or additional oral or written testimony. 

These personal accounts or “lived experiences” will be housed in the National Centre for Research and Remembrance, which received Government approval on 29 March this year, and stand for posterity. While I have not spoken directly with the Collaborative Forum about the initial scoping work, I can assure the Deputy that survivors will be consulted in the course of developing this important initiative.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The investigation of burial arrangements in Mother and Baby Homes, including the former institution in Bessborough, was an important part of the work of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes and certain related matters. The Fifth Interim Report report noted that, despite extensive inquiries and searches, the Commission was only able to identify the burial places of 64 of children who died while resident in Bessborough. In the Final Report, the Commission further noted that it spent considerable time and resources to establish burials places of more than 1,400 children and infants who died in Bessborough Home and Sacred Heart Maternity Hospital or the Cork County Home and St Finnbarr's Hospital; however, it was only able to locate the burial places of 101 infants who died in one or other of these institutions.

The Commission also concluded that it is likely that some of the children who died at Bessborough are buried in the grounds but was unable to find any physical or documentary evidence of this. The Commission carried out cartographic and landscape assessments of possible unrecorded burial arrangements and also followed up with people on responses to its appeal seeking information about burials in Bessborough. As no evidence of locations was found, the Commission did not consider it feasible to excavate the full available site, which amounts to 60 acres.

The Institutional Burials Act 2022, which came into effect on 15th July last, provides the underlying legislative basis for an intervention, whereby the remains of those who died in residential institutions, and who were buried in a manifestly inappropriate manner, may be recovered and re-interred in a respectful and appropriate way.  The legislation was developed in response to the abhorrent situation at the site of the former Mother and Baby institution in Tuam, Co. Galway.  To avoid delays in responding to any similar situations that may arise in the future, the Act is not site specific and also allows for interventions at other institutional sites should manifestly inappropriate burials be discovered.

I am very conscious of the distress felt by families regarding the death of relatives who were resident in the institution in Bessborough and the uncertainty regarding their burial places. However, it is not open to the Government, and by extension to my Department, to procure or carry out investigations at the Bessborough site.

I have emphasised that adequate consideration should be given to the findings of the Commission and the views of survivors and family members in the context of the proposed development of Bessborough site. Last year I made submissions to An Bord Pleanála and Cork City Council as part of the normal planning process, in respect of two planning applications made, requesting that due consideration be given to the sensitivity of the site and the conclusion of the Commission's reports.

I will continue highlight the importance of appropriate treatment of sites associated with Mother and Baby homes and promote engagement with survivors, former residents and family members.