Seanad debates
Thursday, 11 April 2024
Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters
Vacant Properties
9:30 am
Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Seanadóir Malcolm Byrne. Is é an t-ábhar anois ná the need for the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, to make a statement on the total number of vacant or derelict properties nationwide in the ownership or possession of the Department of Health or the HSE and his strategy to address this issue. Tá ceithre nóiméad ag an Seanadóir.
Malcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach agus cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. I appreciate the Minister of State taking this matter, which concerns the ongoing problem of buildings that are either in the ownership or management of the HSE. I understand there are potentially up to 400 such buildings nationwide that have been left derelict or underutilised. While much of the attention in Dublin city is focused on Baggot Street Hospital, which was abandoned by the HSE many years ago, these buildings are located right around the country and local representatives regularly point them out.
I will cite the case of the health centre in Camolin, County Wexford, which is one I have raised regularly in this House. It closed in 2014, much to the annoyance of local people. A lot of questions were asked about what was being done with the building. In 2018, the HSE finally admitted that it was going to offer it to other agencies. In 2020, an issue suddenly arose with the title of the building. It took the HSE eight years to discover this but there was still no action. At the end of 2022, when I raised this matter, I was told that as none of the local agencies or the local authority had an interest, the building would potentially be used to house Ukrainian families. The Minister of State will appreciate, given his brief, the importance of these buildings being available for that purpose. At that time, it was welcomed by the local community because it wanted to see the building finally put to use, with the hope that, in the long term, it would revert to the local community as a community building. The HSE again did nothing.
In November of last year, I arranged a meeting with HSE estates because of its failure regarding a number of projects in north Wexford, including derelict buildings. HSE estates indicated at that meeting with the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, that this matter would be addressed as a priority. Since that meeting in November, I have been trying to get an update from HSE estates on what is happening with that building. There has been some remedial work carried out at the building but there is still nobody inside it.
The Minister of State will appreciate the demand for property in this country, particularly in terms of his own portfolio. That building could be used as a community health centre, and there was interest in that, or by community groups in the area. It could have been used to house Ukrainian families, which was the original purpose indicated 18 months ago, but nothing happened. It could be converted into much-needed housing because it is a fine building. For ten years, the HSE has left that building abandoned.
The reason I get so annoyed about this issue is that while this is just one building, every public representative in the country will be able to point to others, including, I am sure, the Acting Chairperson, Senator Murphy, in Roscommon. The Minister of State knows of such buildings in Dublin. Everyone in Dublin points to Baggot Street hospital. The HSE is one of the biggest owners of derelict and abandoned buildings in the country. Some of them would require very little work to be put back into public use. I have no confidence in HSE estates because there is no evidence of any strategy to address the issue. I ask that the Minister intervene directly. I would appreciate a specific update on the facility in Camolin that the HSE has left abandoned for ten years. This is, however, part of a national strategy that needs to be addressed.
Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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The Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, thanks Senator Byrne for providing the opportunity to update the House on the number of vacant properties in the ownership or possession of the Department or the HSE. The Health Service Executive is responsible for the management of the public healthcare property estate. The HSE has established property protocols for the disposal of property surplus to health requirements. When a HSE-owned property has been vacated by a health service, it is necessary to determine if it is surplus to health requirements. This involves engagement with other HSE services to establish if they have a need for the property in question. Once it is confirmed the property is surplus to requirements, the following process applies. Such properties are initially offered to the Land Development Agency, LDA, and, thereafter, to other State entities listed on the State property register. Finally, if there is no interest expressed by other State entities, the property is placed on the open market.
As of 29 February 2024, the HSE has a total of 183 vacant properties. Of these properties, 90 are surplus to the HSE’s requirements and are in various stages of disposal, while 32 are vacant and under review. These properties are being considered for retention and reuse by health care services or disposal. A further 61 are retained assets, which means the properties are vacant and have been retained for varying reasons related to the provision of health services. Decisions in respect of such properties are informed by HSE service management, based on an understanding of current or future healthcare service needs in the relevant area.
The Minister for Health and his Department welcome the proposals from some local authorities to take up long-term leases on vacant and disused HSE-owned properties which have been identified as being surplus to healthcare needs. The Department continues to engage with other pivotal stakeholders, including the LDA, the Department of housing, and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, to maximise the efficient and effective use of State land.
In relation to the HSE-owned property in Camolin, Enniscorthy, County Wexford, which was formerly used as a health centre, this property is surplus to HSE requirements. HSE capital and estates has reviewed the title of the property and intends to dispose of it in line with its existing property protocols. Wexford County Council has expressed an interest in this property and is actively seeking funding to bring it back into use, with a decision expected in quarter 2 of this year. Should Wicklow County Council decide not to acquire the former Camolin health centre and no interest is expressed in the property by any other State stakeholder, the HSE will then progress the disposal of the property on the open market in line with the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform Circular 17/2016 and HSE property protocols.
Malcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State.I appreciate how difficult it has been for the Department to access properties for a range of services. That 183 properties remain under the control of a State agency is not acceptable, but I use the Camolin example because I am very familiar with it. We have been hearing these excuses for ten years. This is an update, because the last time I asked this question in the House we were told by the HSE that Wexford County Council was not interested in the property. Now, we are told it is. I really question how the Minister of State can have confidence in HSE estates given that it continues to leave vacant so many properties throughout the country and is not treating this issue with urgency when there is such demand for property for so many services. It is crazy. The property in Camolin has been vacant for ten years. That is not just not acceptable.
Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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The Minister again thanks the Senator for the opportunity to update the House on this matter. The HSE is responsible for the management of the public healthcare property estate and, as I mentioned, as of 29 February a total of 183 vacant properties were at various stages. To ensure the optimal use of State land, the HSE has developed property protocols for the acquisition and disposal of property that are in line with the Department of public expenditure's circular. Recently, the HSE has been very co-operative with the Department of children and integration in making a small number of properties available to us to help us with accommodation issues, but that is notwithstanding the large number, 183, that remain vacant.