Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I am particularly pleased to see the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, arriving in the Seanad Chamber. She is directly responsible for the disability sector. It is always great when the line Minister with responsibility, with knowledge, with expertise and with her finger on the pulse in terms of the policy comes to the House. I am not so sure that she has her finger on the purse but she certainly has in terms of the policy. I thank her for coming to the Senate on this important issue.

My Commencement matter today deals with the crisis in the St. John of God services. Families of the service users there are deeply concerned about the proposed change over from St. John of God Community Services to the HSE. To set some context, St. John of God Community Services provides residential and community care for over 8,000 people. That was a surprise to me. I am very familiar with the service. I am very familiar with the exceptional work the staff, the brothers of the Hospitaller Order of St. John of God and their board do, and more importantly what the volunteers, parents and family members do in providing such a comprehensive holistic service. It is important that we do not lose sight of that and acknowledge that.

It is providing care for over 8,000 people with intellectual disabilities, and mental health, special educational and training needs. It employs over 3,000 people. It is a huge community. It is a workers collaborative and includes the families, volunteers and of course the order itself whose very ethos is care, humanity, dignity and respect for all the order comes in contact with. It is important that we do not lose sight of that. That vision and ethos are rich in its work.

The St. John of God service has made the case for years that the level of State funding provided is not sufficient to cover the costs of providing the appropriate care and services needed. The Minister of State will be aware that St. John of God Community Services has been in negotiation with the HSE for several years. It claims there is a shortfall in funding to meet the needs of its services and to address the deficit. The failure to find agreement on sufficient levels of funding despite three years of talks is devastating and a setback for all involved. It is causing unnecessary anxiety. I have had calls from people in Dublin, Kerry, Kildare, Wicklow, Meath and Louth who are availing of these services and are really concerned.

At the very core of this issue is the accumulated deficit in the financial operation and the sustainability of St. John of God Community Services. In the limited time available, I would like to hear a quick overview of where we are going from now. When will the Minister of State be sitting down with the chief executive and the board of St. John of God services? Hopefully she has already done so. Is there a plan or a schedule to meet them in the coming days to iron out the difficulties?

In December the Minister of State launched the Government's disability service action plan for 2024 to 2026.I have printed the press releases and the various media statements on this. The plan speaks about key priorities for the period, measures to increase the capacity of children's disability services, expanding respite services, and having extra residential places, extra home supports and personal assistants and services. There is a real need to get this going. There is a need for major financial support of, and investment in, St. John of God Community Services and others.

A total of 8,000 people are in the care of one organisation. We need to look at this again. When there is a crisis in an organisation that has this amount of responsibility, it leaves the State and everybody very exposed. I am here to listen to the Minister of State. We may need a further debate on this as time goes by. I am conscious these are sensitive times. This is a time for negotiation. The Minister of State knows the finer detail of it. I would like to take away from here today when the Minister of State will look these people in the eye and facilitate a meeting between herself, the HSE, and the board of St. John of God Community Services.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Boyhan for raising this important matter for discussion in the Chamber today. As he quite rightly said, St. John of God Community Services provides services for 8,000 of our most vulnerable citizens across their entire life spectrum. It has 3,000 staff working for it. There is a collaborative approach, with the person at the centre, between the staff, the parents and the volunteers. A lot of parents whose young person has gone through service also give back their time.

The HSE has worked intensively with the organisation throughout the sustainability impact assessment process to address financial and operational sustainability challenges. The Government's clear preference is for St. John of God Community Services to continue to provide these services if this is possible. Most recently the HSE, with the backing of the Department, reaffirmed a strong commitment to support its service provision. As recently as last Thursday, the HSE's chief executive officer, Bernard Gloster, set out an extensive package on offer to St. John of God Community Services in addition to the €200 million. Notably, the HSE's financial projections indicate the service provider will achieve a break-even position in 2024 as it has done since 2019. Since 2019 we have worked with St. John of God Community Services and provided additional funding to ensure the continuation of the exceptional service it delivers to meet the needs of the most vulnerable and, at the same time, balance this with ensuring the service breaks even.

The HSE and the relevant Department was, therefore, surprised and disappointed last week when the board of St. John of God Community Services indicated its decision to commence a transfer of services to the HSE. This prompted further high-level engagement over the weekend. I am conscious of my language here this morning. I need to keep it very measured because intensive negotiations are taking place. As I stand before Members, the board of St. John of God Community Services is meeting. The Department is meeting the people from the HSE involved in the SLA. I felt it was incumbent on me to respond to the Senator this morning, which is why I am here. A lot of intensive and sensitive negotiations are going on.

The CEO of the HSE met directly with representatives of the board of St. John of God Community Services at 3 p.m. on Sunday. He followed this with an extensive letter yesterday morning. Engagement between the parties is ongoing and it is important that we provide every opportunity for an outcome that would avoid the transfer of services. All parties acknowledge this would be in the best interests of service users, their families, service staff and public confidence.

Significant work on the sustainability impact assessment process has provided a pathway to sustainable high-quality services that meet service users' needs and address corporate governance considerations. It is important to me, in the same context as Senator Boylan mentioned the disability capacity action plan, to acknowledge that St. John of God Community Services is not the only service provider that finds itself in this situation. This is why it is important that we find a sustainable pathway out of crisis and deficit.

The HSE, backed by the Department, remains committed to following through on the outcome of the process and has communicated to St. John of God Community Services that additional funding is available to enhance the services and support related reforms. As the Minister of State with responsibility for disability, a key ongoing objective of mine is to ensure appropriate funding is available to deliver quality services for people with disabilities. We committed to finding innovative solutions to these systemic challenges by continuing to work with HSE, service providers, staff and service users. The organisation has received close to €1 billion in funding since 2019. I will continue to work closely with the HSE to ensure appropriate funding is available to service providers. I assure the staff, service users and families that the HSE, backed by the relevant Department, is committed to funding St. John of God Community Services. Senator Boyhan asked me when will I look people in the eye. I sent an email last Friday.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Sending an email is very different to looking someone in the eye.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I have requested it. I am awaiting a response.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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The Minister of State said she was measured in her words and so am I. I have correspondence in front of me that I could have read into the record but it would not be appropriate because it is sensitive.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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We know that EY has completed a report into St. John of God Community Services on the financial deficit and has confirmed that €27.9 million - let us be precise - is the accumulated deficit as a result of the SLA for St. John of God Community Services. I wish the Minister of State well and I wish everyone well. This is a time of working together. At the end of the day the focus here, as the Minister of State rightly said, is beyond St. John of God Community Services. There are other challenges for other people. The focus has to be the responsibility for residential support for the families who are left with people with disabilities. Many of them now rely on older parents, foster parents or family members. I thank the Minister of State and I want to work with her. I hope we can progress these matters.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I finished by saying I issued an email. It was issued in the context of wanting the process to work. The process has to work and not only for St. John of God Community Services. I have to believe that in the Department and in the HSE under the leadership of Bernard Gloster, the process works. It is one thing to ensure we have sustainability to deliver services. The other part of the process is to address the outstanding deficit. I wish both parties, St. John of God and the HSE, well. I believe both want a positive solution and both look at having the person at the centre, as does Senator Boyhan and as do I. We cannot be sellotaping on a year-by-year basis. We need a long-term solution and I am committed to this.