Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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The next Commencement matter is in the name of Senator Clonan. It relates to children on waiting lists for complex spinal surgery and limb reconstruction at Children's Health Ireland. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell is not taking this matter.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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No.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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That is okay. At this stage I invite Senator Clonan to speak on this Commencement matter.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I have tabled this matter to ask the Minister for Health to comment on the fact we have 150 children with limb deformities and serious spinal issues who are not being operated on. I know of at least one child who has become permanently paralysed since we raised this issue prior to Christmas.It is of great interest that neither the Minister nor one of his representatives has turned up to take a Commencement matter. Is that a precedent? It is an affront to this House and to the 150 children who are in pain as we speak. What makes those children different from other Irish citizens? As I have said before, it is because they are disabled. Because they are disabled, they are allowed to suffer on in pain. Can the Minister of State imagine a child becoming permanently paralysed on the Government's watch, despite it having been made aware of this matter before Christmas? I will not take a response from him. This is not personal; he knows the respect and the esteem in which I hold him, but the Minister has not bothered to turn up here.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, I am not here to take this matter. I came in for the previous debate. Out of respect for the House, I remained in the chair.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I appreciate that.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I will not be providing a response. I remained here out of respect for the House.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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This is not personal.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I am here out of respect for the House, of which I am a former Member.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I hold the Minister of State in very high esteem and have great respect for him. The fact that the Minister and the Department have not sent anybody here is absolutely emblematic of the contempt in which they hold disabled children and their parents.

The core issue is that two of Ireland's most experienced spinal surgeons came before the Joint Committee on Health last year and called out Children's Health Ireland, CHI, in respect of Temple Street and Cappagh. They said that we have a cohort of children who are not being treated within the therapeutic window. That makes us outliers in both European and international terms. It means that children are undergoing unnecessarily complex spinal surgeries. In that context, my own son was an anaesthetic risk going in for his spinal surgery to the extent that he had to be manually extubated by the anaesthetist or he would not have survived intensive care.

Why are CHI, the Minister and the Department putting us through this pain and trauma? Why are these 150 children being left on waiting lists without surgery? One of them has become permanently paralysed. Is the Minister of State listening to what I am saying? A child has become permanently paralysed. That is completely and utterly unacceptable. The Minister cannot even come in here and take a Commencement matter. He is showing contempt for the House and its processes.

The two senior surgeons to whom I refer basically blew the whistle on the mistreatment and ill-treatment of disabled children. As a consequence, they are now both the target of whistleblower reprisal on the part of the management of CHI. Representatives of CHI came before the joint committee prior to Christmas. Their contributions were not credible. Their position is not tenable. I want to know if the Minister, the Tánaiste or the Taoiseach have confidence in the board of CHI, because I do not. The two surgeons do not, but they have been suspended. The latter was an act of whistleblower reprisal; it fits the classic template. The surgeons came before the committee, pointed out the deficiencies in the system and have now been suspended. As a consequence of their suspension, no surgeries are being carried out on children with very serious spinal issues.

As I said, we have children with limb deformities that are not being addressed. This is completely and utterly intolerable, and the Minister has not even shown up here today. The burden of this whistleblower reprisal is being borne by 150 children. Members of this House ,quite rightly express concern about children in Gaza and Ukraine but 150 Irish children have been left in pain. I am not going to leave the House until the Minister comes here. I am not going to quit this position until the Minister comes in or sends one of his representatives. What is happening is completely disrespectful and is emblematic of how this State treats disabled citizens and disabled children, who are the most vulnerable people in our society. It is an absolute disgrace.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Before I call the Minister of State to reply, I wish to say to the Senator that he has made his point. I think it is unusual. We have no response, even a written response, to circulate to him. The Minister of State has clearly stated his position. He is not scheduled to take this matter. He has indicated that he would like to say a few words. I am going to facilitate the Minister of State for a few moments.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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With respect, on what basis?

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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The Minister of State is not attempting to reply.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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Is the Minister of State entitled to speak?

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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He has indicated.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I know the Minister of State wants to speak.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I would like to facilitate the Minister of State's request to speak to the House.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I tabled a Commencement matter to get an informed response from the Department, not to get somebody coming in here and talking the matter by the seat of their pants. No disrespect to the Minister of State, but does he know anything about orthopaedic care?

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Senator Clonan, please. I understand your passion.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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Children in the Gallery, you go home and tell your parents what a circus this Seanad is. Tell them how we treat disabled children in this country.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Senator Clonan, the Minister of State is on his feet.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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This is a civics lesson in how parliamentary democracy is abused.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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The Minister of State has a few words to say.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Out of respect for the House and for Senator Clonan, I felt obliged to stay here for this debate. I am not going to respond to the debate. This is an issue I am aware of but I do not have a competence in. It does not come within my brief. I undertake to go back to the Minister to confirm what exactly happened here - I suspect it will also be followed up by the Seanad Office - namely, that the Minister was not present to respond to the Senator's Commencement matter. The Senator is hugely committed to this very worthwhile cause. I will seek to out what the circumstances are in terms of the script. Out of respect for the Senator and the House, I undertake to follow up on the matter.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State. Senator Clonan has one minute to respond, as is the process for Commencement matters.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State. I have one minute to respond. I appreciate that the Minister of State, out of respect for the process, has undertaken to respond. I want him to know that we have 150 disabled children in need of complex spinal surgery. Children like my son are being allowed to deteriorate because of a vendetta by the board of CHI against two senior surgeons who raised concerns about the mistreatment of Irish children. We have it within our gift to resolve this problem today but the Minister is refusing to do so. It is a rhetorical device to say that this is a matter for CHI. The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, can give authority to CHI or the HSE but he cannot cede responsibility. The Minister is responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen in his Department, and these 150 children are on him. He did not show up here today. Nobody from Government, apart from the Minister of State who was here to take a different matter, showed up. Another Minister of State came in to respond to questions about listed buildings for An Post but no Minister will not come in to respond to a Commencement matter on children with disabilities. That is because children with disabilities and disabled citizens in Ireland are considered to have less human value than other citizens. That has been my lived experience and it has been the experience of these families. One of the parents rang me last night, and I could hear his child in bed in pain in the background. She could not go to school, I could hear the mother trying to explain to the child that her daddy was on the phone to a Senator to see if he could get help for them.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Thank you, Senator Clonan.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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Where is the Minister? I am sorry, Acting Chairperson, you are going to have to remove me from this Chamber.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Senator, I am chairing the proceedings.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I do not care. There are 150 children in extreme pain.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Senator Clonan, please take your seat.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I have raised this matter before. Nobody is listening. What does the Acting Chairperson expect me to do?

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Senator Clonan, please. .

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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What if it was your child, Acting Chairperson? What if it was the Minister of State's child? If the Acting Chairperson's child became permanently paralysed-----

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Senator Clonan, please take your seat.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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-----would he invoke Standing Orders? Would you invoke a one-minute limit on a response?

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Senator Clonan-----

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I am not going-----

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I have to operate on the basis of Standing Orders.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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You are going to have to remove me from this Chamber.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I ask the Senator to take his seat.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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This is emblematic of the way that this Government, and Irish policy, treat disabled people.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I ask Senator Clonan to take his seat.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I will not take my seat. You are going to have to remove me from this Chamber.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I am not removing anybody-----

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I am not taking my seat.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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-----I will suspend the House.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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Suspend away.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I cannot call on the Minister of State if the Senator does not take his seat.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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This is an absolute disgrace. If anybody looking on or listening to this ever doubted the contempt with which disabled citizens and carers are held in this country, here is the evidence. This is the proof of it.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Senator Clonan, will you please take your seat?

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I was outside the gates for 20 years protesting, protests that fell on deaf ears.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I am going to suspend the House.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I got elected by the people to come in here and was given a mandate to raise these issues. When I come into this Chamber, what I have to say falls on deaf ears. They do not even turn up to listen to the matters that are being raised.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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Senator Clonan, please take your seat.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I am not raising issues about expenses, listed buildings or rainforests-----

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I am suspending the House until 11.30 a.m.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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-----I am talking about 150 children who are in pain.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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The House is now suspended.