Seanad debates

Wednesday, 25 October 2023

10:30 am

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome our distinguished guests on both sides of the House. I also wish all the Czech nationals who live in Ireland a good day today as they celebrate their culture and history.

The Order of Business is No. 1, Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person (Amendment) (Spiking) Bill 2023 – Committee Stage (Resumed) and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 12.45 p.m. and adjourn not later than 2.30 p.m., if not previously concluded; No. 2, Employment Equality (Amendment) (Non-Disclosure Agreements) Bill 2021 – Report and Final Stages, to be taken at 3 p.m. and to adjourn at 5 p.m., if not previously concluded; and No. 3, statements on the political situation in Northern Ireland, to be taken at 6 p.m. and to conclude after 90 minutes, if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to the opening remarks of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes, all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be given not less than ten minutes to reply to the debate.

Photo of Gerry HorkanGerry Horkan (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Acting Leader for outlining the Order of Business with which I am in agreement. I welcome Mr. Vurm and Mr. Brennan from the Czech Embassy and wish them a very happy national day, as the Acting Leader and Leas-Chathaoirleach have done. I wish all Czechs living in Ireland a very happy national day and hope all the Irish people living in the Czech Republic enjoy the day also. I know they had a very successful event recently in the Czech Embassy. I was given the privilege of speaking at the embassy's national day function last year to wish the outgoing ambassador the very best on his retirement and the new ambassador, who is coming in early January if I am right, the very best.

I attended an event yesterday evening and I wish to pay a small tribute to the honorary consul of Ireland to New Zealand who held that role for more than 40 years. He is back in Ireland at the moment visiting from New Zealand. At 88 years of age, Mr. Rodney Walshe was one of the first recipients of the President's award for outstanding service that Irish people have given abroad. Our own Billy Lawless got the award at a later date. Mr. Walshe has done amazing work. He went to New Zealand in 1959 and in the 1960s started a family and set up businesses there. He was actually the Irish, if you like, agent for Bord Fáilte, which became Tourism Ireland, promoting Ireland in New Zealand. He was also the agent for Butlers Chocolates and had many other interests. He is still hale and hearty. Last night, there was a gathering in Buswells Hotel to celebrate his visit to Ireland. He attended the rugby game and regardless of who won he was going to be happy, although he would have preferred if Ireland had beaten new Zealand. Many of us will wish New Zealand well at the weekend, while wishing it was Ireland in the final, of course.

On a more serious note, we have an upcoming bank holiday weekend. I ask all Senators to make an appeal to our followers and supporters and those who look at our social media content. There always seem to be more road fatalities, injuries and accidents on bank holiday weekends. There are obviously more people travelling on the roads and people may be distracted and tired. While enforcement and education play a part, it is up to all of us to be vigilant. I was cycling this morning and a lady nearly walked out onto the bike lane while listening to headphones. She was very apologetic and we were both happy that nothing happened but accidents are caused in a split second. The Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, will appear before the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications, of which I am Chair, this afternoon to discuss road safety and his upcoming road safety Bill.We have had a very difficult year this year, particularly at weekends. The RSA came before the committee. The points it made related in particular to evenings, weekends, younger males, intoxication and speed. Those are the issues that feature over and over again. I am not trying to target anybody. I am trying to warn people so they can be safe. Let us have a bank holiday weekend where there are no accidents and no fatalities. That would be helpful to all of us.

I welcome Daniel Cline and Councillor Maguire, who I know very well, along with her mother May McKeon, who was a wonderful councillor for many years and with whom I served on the regional authority.

A story in today's edition of The Irish Timesrefers to Dublin Airport. We need a debate about the longer-term development of Dublin Airport. We are talking about having to cap numbers at Christmas so we need that debate.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I join Senator Horkan in welcoming our dignitaries from the Czech Republic and wishing them and our Czech population here a good day.

The budget has been revolutionary and radical in its improvements for children, a vulnerable section of our population that is the future of our country but that would not necessarily have a voice. A couple of radical things happened in the budget. The second reduction in the cost of childcare, bringing it down by 50% in two years, is extraordinarily radical. The doubling of child benefit at Christmas is a huge step, as are the various interventions in terms of free school textbooks and free school meals up to junior certificate, the various interventions in third level education and medical cards continuing after the age of 18.

However, we should never rest on our laurels or assume that all is well in the state of Denmark because we have done significant things. For this reason, I raise an issue that remains difficult and contentious, namely, child and adult mental health services. There are two issues here. The Acting Leader is a former primary teacher so I have no doubt that this subject is close to her heart. We need to know there is quality of service and there has been dispute about that. We need objective criteria to be very sure the best personnel and best regulated service are in place. Critically, we need to reduce waiting lists. I know there has been progress and I know the Acting Leader will be able to report progress on behalf of the Government but it is unacceptable that an adolescent would wait for more than a month for mental health services. In some instances, even waiting for a month is too long but waiting for over a month is unacceptable. It is also unacceptable for there to be any diminution in or lack of quality in the service and for there to be a total reliance on drugs or quick expedients to solve a problem that needs a deeper and possibly more costly intervention. I want the Acting Leader to bring to the attention of the Government that we want waiting times to be no longer than a month and that no other objective is acceptable, that we want a quality service and that there can be no suggestion of an over-reliance on drugs or any failures in that regard.

Photo of Rónán MullenRónán Mullen (Independent)
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I also welcome our distinguished guests on both sides, including our Czech guests, who will be aware that the infant child of Prague played an important role in the success of many an Irish wedding by being left outside on the eve of the wedding in the hope of getting good weather for the photographs the following day, although I know of one unhappy Irish mother who in her pique at the bad weather left the infant child of Prague out for the whole week just to punish him in the elements subsequently.

On a more sombre note, I attended a meeting of the Joint Committee on Health last week where the report of the three-year review of abortion legislation was discussed. This report drew on research that interviewed 58 women who had abortions and doctors who performed abortions. It leaned on the WHO's so-called abortion care guidelines of 2022, which advocates removing mandatory waiting periods. What is interesting is that the report and its writers did not examine or even reference other jurisdictions that have mandatory abortion waiting periods, including over half of all US states and several countries. In May, the chairperson of the review replied, "No, I have not" when asked whether the report's writers had spoken to any women who went through the three-day waiting period in Ireland and decided to go ahead and have their child. Even more remarkably, when asked last week if there was anywhere in the world where there was a mandatory three-day delay for any medical procedure, the chairperson Marie O'Shea said, "Not that I am aware of". Evidently, she was unaware of or ignored the jurisdictions that have mandatory waiting periods for abortion. That is remarkable.

You have the chairperson of the abortion review, which is supposed to be an independent and evidence-led report, providing the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health with inaccurate information, failing to bring relevant information to the committee, failing to refer to it in the report and implying, as she seems to wish to do, that Ireland was an international outlier in mandating a three-day waiting period and that we were somehow out of step. It beggars belief and raises the question about the money spent on this so-called independent report. It is not a joke. It is an expensive joke at the expense of the Irish taxpayer.

The report cited a study by the START doctors' group claiming that just 2% of women made the initial appointment but did not proceed to the second appointment but ignored information from the HSE showing the overall figure was closer to 16.5% of all initial cases. There was obvious cherry-picking of which evidence to include in this review and which to exclude. There was no interview with a single woman who changed her mind and did not have an abortion. While it was claimed that it would somehow be unethical to interview women with this experience, as it would be potential traumatic to ask why they changed their minds and then had the baby, these same researchers did not express such a concern about the ethics of the traumatising impact of interviewing survivors of sexual assault who had abortions, an experience that is potentially far more traumatic than a woman using the three-day waiting period to reflect on her options and deciding to keep her baby.

Serious questions must be asked about this report, which was supposed to be independent, and the highly tendentious and partisan approach its chair and writers have taken in the preparation of the report and in their evidence before the committee. At its worst, it is misinformation and, at best, it is failing to bring relevant information to the committee. The Minister for Health should answer questions about how this report was organised, how much money was spent on it and what the Government is going to do now in light of the misleading of people about some very relevant issues.

Photo of Lynn BoylanLynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I again raise the situation in Israel and Palestine. I start by welcoming the release of four hostages and call for the release of all the hostages taken on 7 October by Hamas. I will focus on the increasingly dire situation in Gaza and once again call for a ceasefire and for Israel to act within international law. The drip feed of aid and the refusal by the Israeli state to allow fuel into the Gaza Strip have catastrophic consequences for the civilian population. We know one third of Gaza's hospitals are closed and more will shut within hours due to a lack of fuel. The WHO has said that if fuel is not delivered to the region, thousands of vulnerable patients are at risk of dying, including 130 premature babies, 1,000 patients dependent on dialysis and all those patients on life support. The UN has warned that the wards could turn into mass graves. The one and only oncology hospital in the region is only partially functioning. Beit Hanoun Hospital has stopped operations because of the heavy bombardment it is coming under. Children are being operated on without any anaesthetic and washing up liquid is being used to clean wounds.

All of this is taking place in front of our eyes. Not a single politician in the world can say that he or she does not know that this is happening. History will remember those who failed to condemn these actions and who did not do everything within their power to call for an immediate ceasefire. This includes the European Parliament, which failed to do so last week, and the US Administration, which has said that a ceasefire would only help Hamas.I would like to commend the UN Secretary General, António Guterres, on his very honest and forthright comments yesterday. There is a chilling atmosphere right now for those who dare to call for a stop to the collective punishment of the Palestinian people. I hope that alongside using all of our diplomatic avenues to call for a ceasefire and an end to Israeli war crimes, that the Government will also resist any attempt to remove Mr. Guterres from his post, which we heard from the Israeli representative at the UN yesterday. People are being fired from their jobs for expressing political views. Tube drivers in London are being suspended. That is a very chilling atmosphere for anybody to be living in. We are a democracy and we believe in freedom of expression. I hope that the Government will stand solid with the UN Secretary General.

Photo of Mark WallMark Wall (Labour)
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I support Senator Boylan's comments on what is happening in Gaza at the moment. It is horrific what is coming out, and we can all call for an immediate ceasefire, given what we are seeing on our screens day in, day out and what we are hearing. I want to put on record my support for that call.

Yesterday, I had the chance to visit the Athy and Castledermot youth diversion project in its new premises in Athy. I want to outline the great work that Jamie, Lindsey and Eimear are doing there. They are helping young people aged 12 to 17 through personal and social development day in, day out. It is important to acknowledge that. The project provides individual group work, education and employment supports, mentoring and advice, family support and social activities such as training, cooking, art, sports and outdoor pursuits. Most importantly, it looks after those who are vulnerable. The project takes referrals from schools, parents and community groups, and bringing young people in with like-minded young people and showing them that there is another path. That is always important, and something we should all support. The funding for this comes from the Department of Justice's Dormant Accounts Fund. It is important that continued funding is provided for those young people.

They are also looking at starting up a project for even younger people. That is what we were told yesterday, and that should be supported by the Department as well. Unfortunately, they are getting referrals for those who are younger than 12. They need to start a project for them, and if such funding was provided, it would be very worthwhile for the project as it is. I want to acknowledge that, and the great work the project does day in, day out.

The second issue I want to raise relates to sports funding. The Acting Leader recently visited Kildare Town AFC with the Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Thomas Byrne, and I visited it on the Thursday night before that. I was struck by what the club is doing in trying to provide a full-sized astroturf playing surface for almost 400 members. The population of Kildare town is almost 10,000 at the moment. We need to have a discussion in this House on sports funding and facilities and I ask the Acting Leader to organise it with the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne.

I want to put on record my thanks for all the support that been given under the sports capital programme. It has made a difference, and I know Kildare Town AFC has made an application as well. Unfortunately, the club is turning away young boys and girls at the moment. There is absolutely no doubt about that, and the reason is facilities. This is something I have raised before. My colleague Peter Horgan, following a recent visit to Avondale United in Cork, told me a similar story and I think it is similar story right around the country. I ask the Acting Leader to ask the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne to come before us because sports facilities play such an important part in the social fabric of all our communities, and it is time we properly looked at funding sports facilities in this country.

Photo of Malcolm ByrneMalcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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The Ceannaire Gníomhach will be aware that there was a sentencing this week for the murders of two gay men in Sligo. I do not want to comment on the court case but it is appropriate that the House would remember the victims, Aidan Moffitt and Michael Snee. Anthony Burke was also the victim of a pretty horrific assault in Sligo, and An Garda Síochána clearly identified these as hate crimes. I certainly know from talking to many friends, and the evidence is also there, that we are seeing rising levels of homophobia and transphobia in Ireland, something we thought we had moved beyond.

Today, the EU Agency for Fundamental Rights reported that black people in Ireland and across the European Union are saying that they are now experiencing more racism and discrimination. We are witnessing the rise of antisemitism and Islamophobia across Europe. The Acting Leader will be aware that last week as well, we saw two Swedish football fans who were attacked in Brussels. The alleged perpetrator said that he was motivated by fundamentalist Islam. We need a debate in this House on tolerance and how we can ensure that all sectors of society feel safe. Given the way people identify because of their skin colour, gender or sexual orientation, there is rising evidence of intolerance and discrimination, and we all have a voice in that regard. It is important that these Houses set that out clearly.

I note on what is the week of Czechia's national day the words of Vaclav Havel, who I think had a lot to say on this when he said:

I feel that the dormant goodwill in people needs to be stirred. People need to hear that it makes sense to behave decently or to help others, to place common interests above their own, to respect the elementary rules of human coexistence.

We need to start respecting those rules.

Photo of Maria ByrneMaria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I, first, would like to follow on the words of a young apprentice called Jodie Whyte from Johnson & Johnson in Limerick. She was nominated for the Apprentice of the Year award recently. Jodie started her career as a chef and is now participating in an apprentice programme to be an engineer. This is something that is close to the Acting Leader's own heart, which is encouraging women to participate in science, technology, engineering and mathematics, STEM. When she was nominated for the award, Ms Whyte was very vocal regarding the difference it has made to her life. She said that she has worked with so many influential people alongside her on a daily basis at work. She is earning a living, yet she is going on to study her degree, and she is learning so much every day from the people who are alongside her and those who are training her. This is something that we need to highlight more to encourage people to go forward, get involved and participate in apprenticeships, especially females. Female participation has to be encouraged and I know it is something that the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science has been encouraging. We need to use more people like Ms Whyte in highlighting the difference that it has made to people's lives in encouraging people to participate.

I would also like to congratulate the management team at Shannon Airport on turning itself around. The coming weekend is the Hallowe'en bank holiday weekend and they expect to have more people flying out of the airport than they had back prior to the Covid-19 pandemic. It is really fantastic because new routes have been advertised recently. A flight to Paris is coming onstream, flights that were never out of the airport. I want to congratulate the management team at Shannon Airport because it really is good to see that regional balance, and to see Shannon Airport back where it should be.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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I seek a debate on rural housing. I have asked for this on a number of occasions. Why am I doing so again? In the past few days, I attended the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, which met in Kildare. The social and environmental sub-committee, of which I am a member, took evidence over the past two days from many people involved in the sector, from the Office of the Planning Regulator to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, and various stakeholders in this sector.

One of the issues that has been continuously raised, and which was raised again in the context of Scotland, Wales and Ireland, since those three jurisdictions were very much central to this debate, is the frustration at the inability of individual farm or land owners, or generations of their families, to do one-off self-builds. One-off self-build houses are not for everybody but many people choose that option or would like to pursue that option because of affordability. We do not need a lecture in this House about affordability and access to houses. Most of these sites are given by family members, so that is half the cost. The second bit with a self-build is that one can build it incrementally over three or four years. The Acting Leader will see in County Kildare how many houses tend to take a few years to complete because there is an issue of cash or finance coming forward.There is a place for self-build one-off houses in Ireland, subject to strict environmental regulations. We need a debate on that and also on another important issue, namely that the Government is operating under 2005 rural planning guidelines. Every rural Deputy, Senator and councillor to whom I speak says it is not working. We need to look again. Despite all the promises it seems that the politicians involved in this area run to the hills. I do not know whether that is because of the political timeline in front of us in the next few months when we will discuss many local issues, but we now renew the call for the Government to publish the new rural planning guidelines for Ireland which apparently are in draft form.

Photo of Mary FitzpatrickMary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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Dublin is one of the oldest and finest European capitals. It has our medieval, Georgian, Edwardian and modern architecture, our world-class literary tradition, our famous pub culture and great Dublin wit. A number of times I have raised the issue that Dubliners are sick to the back teeth of litter, rubbish and dirt on our streets. We are sick of having to pick our way along the streets through rubbish when on our way to work or going out to socialise. Dublin City Council really needs to get its act together in terms of cleaning up the city streets and parks. There is a crazy system whereby the crew that takes care of the bins on the street does not take care of the bins in the parks and the crews that take care of the bins in the parks do not take care of the the bins on the streets. Dublin City Council gives permits for the days when bin collections take place on a street. It knows the areas that do not have wheelie-bins, that only have plastic bins, and the seagulls arrive and tear those bins apart. We need action on this. Dublin City Council needs to be accountable for keeping the city streets clean. It sends a terribly negative message to people who live and work here and to people who visit here. Dublin City Council needs to clean up its act and clean up the city's public spaces. I ask the Acting Leader to write to the CEO of Dublin City Council asking that he account for himself and the organisation.

Photo of Tim LombardTim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise the issue of the dairy industry and where we are at the moment regarding the nitrates derogation. The nitrates derogation was clarified in the past few months. The EPA published a map on 1 July which puts Ireland in two different zones regarding organic manure, one zone in 250 kg N/ha and one in 220 kg N/ha. The knock-on implication is that those in the 220 kg N/ha zone must now make sure their stock rate is appropriate to that zone. The majority of dairy farmers, in fact all of them, will have finished their breeding programme in June. They have now been told that by 1 January they need to be in the situation applicable to this new nitrate derogation proposal. This means that those in that location will have to de-stock by 15%. These are animals in calf - 40,000 dairy cows, some six or seven months in calf - about to calf in January, February and March. We will now have the bizarre scenario that because of this regulation we will have to demand that our farmers slaughter these animals. It is sinful. It makes no logical sense. It means we will have a massive cull of our dairy herd off the back of a derogation. The farmers had no opportunity to change their breeding programme because it had finished in June and the map was published on 1 July. Had the map been published previously the point could have been argued but because it was not published they had no option. Realistically we are saying that farmers want to make sure they are in line with regulations but they need time to make sure that these animals can come off the farm in an appropriate manner. We are not looking to reinvent the wheel. We are looking for appropriate time to make sure that these animals can be moved through the actual system itself. Otherwise, we are potentially going to have more than 40,000 animals going to the factory in the next 11 weeks. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate in the next few days with the Minister about the issue of the in-calf animals and how he proposes to deal with them.

Photo of Rónán MullenRónán Mullen (Independent)
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Well said.

Photo of Regina DohertyRegina Doherty (Fine Gael)
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Today I wish to talk about swimming because in north County Dublin we are blessed with some of the best beaches in the whole country but for the two fastest-growing constituencies of Fingal East and Fingal West there is a massive population but not a single swimming pool for more than 100,000 people. The issue has been raised on numerous occasions here by me and elsewhere by our local councillors, particularly Tom O'Leary. In the Castlelands masterplan in Balbriggan there is a specific provision for a swimming pool by Fingal County Council. Standard swimming pools of the type we learned to swim in probably cost about €10 million to €12 million. It has never quite come to the top of the list and both the North Fingal Pool Campaign and Swim Ireland have come up with an ingenious plan in the past number of years that we should be putting modular pools in, which cost about €2 million. We could get three or four of them in the county as opposed to just one. The decision was made to put a modular pool in Castlelands because that is where the provision is in the masterplan. Lo and behold, we cannot find a site. We have a masterplan that designated this area because it is thriving with a great many houses, new schools and shopping centres. This was where this much-needed amenity was going to be. We got around all the hurdles of the €12 million to €15 million, and now we cannot find a site. I ask the Leader, genuinely, if she will use her good offices to ask both the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, and also the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to help Fingal County Council, and probably more importantly, to help all the people who have been waiting for donkeys years for this pool, to progress this project and to make sure that we get our swimming pool sooner rather than later please.

Photo of Paul GavanPaul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I will begin with three short quotes:

I do not know how I will tell her that she will not be able to play with her friends. I do not know how she will be convinced that she lost her brother Mohammed while they were playing;

... The nature and severity of the damage inflicted on civilian infrastructure critical to essential services... cannot be understated... There were already significant gaps in water, power and fuel prior to the early October escalations... if significant civilian infrastructural damage is not addressed, no further escalation is required for the situation to worsen from dire to catastrophic...;

...just confirmation that between 5 October and 9 October air attacks and shelling were intensive. The impact of those attacks has now been documented. There were 11 power stations hit affecting more than 2 million people; 18 water stations are out of service; two hospitals destroyed; 48 educational sites hit; three industrial facilities out of service and 44 people killed.

I am not referring to the ongoing genocide against the Palestinian people which I unreservedly condemn. I am referring to the genocide against the Kurdish people in north and east Syria which has been ongoing for the past five years. Turkey has kept up continuous, low-level attacks and targeted assassinations since its 2019 invasion. Turkey has not invaded proper because America and Russia refused to move their troops. The people of north and east Syria are the people in the forefront of the fight against ISIS. Indeed, they allied with American forces. However, since then, America is happy to supply arms so that Turkey can bomb and drive these people out of their villages and murder indiscriminately men, women and children. I am raising this issue because this is a genocide that no one is talking about. We need a debate on this issue. I wish to credit my colleague from the Council of Europe, Sarah Glynn, an activist and journalist who constantly tries to to bring our attention to these matters. Turkey has a special place within NATO and as a result no one in Europe, regretfully including our Government, is saying anything on this ongoing war and invasion against heroic people who have stood against ISIS. I am asking for an urgent debate on the matter.

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome to the Gallery the guests of Senator Emer Higgins, from the Rathcoole Active Retirement Group, who are most welcome to Seanad Éireann. I thank them for coming here today and I hope they enjoy their visit to Leinster House. I now call Senator Kyne.

Photo of Seán KyneSeán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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I concur with Senator Lombard. There is an animal welfare issue and a moral issue there. The vast majority of farmers would not knowingly send an animal in calf to slaughter. If this is required under directives or nitrates derogations or for our carbon footprint, well it has to be reversed. We cannot allow that sort of thing to happen and farmers to be forced to send animals to slaughter that are in calf.

I want to raise matters of education. On numerous occasions a number of us have raised the issue of school transport.I have never come across a situation where there was such a shortage of bus drivers, which is impacting predominantly on the provision of school bus routes but not just these routes. I again call on the Minister for Education to engage with Bus Éireann to see whether the retirement age for bus drivers can be increased. I ask because we have the nonsensical situation for the past number of years that the same bus drivers cannot bring children on the school bus run but they can drive them to a match or to visit somewhere else or whatever. Increasing the retirement age would lead to an immediate increase in the number of bus drivers. I ask for that because a number of school bus routes in the Moycullen area have been cancelled and that is not good enough. For example, the bus routes from Moycullen to St. Paul's Second School, and Moycullen to an Educate Together national school in Galway do not have school transport.

The Acting Leader is a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Education, Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, and I will raise the issue of school places with my colleagues on that committee. What is a mother to do who does not have a school place for her young son, as we approach the mid-term break? I have not come across such a situation like this before in my area. This lady has engaged with the Minister, Tusla, the welfare officer and all the schools but there is no school place. What is this lady to do? Again, I will raise this matter directly with colleagues but this mother and her child are faced with a very difficult situation.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I support what Senators Lombard and Kyne said about sending of animals to slaughter that are in calf. I strongly support the strong sentiments expressed by both Senators.

I would like to raise an issue that concerns fishing. We have received a communication from the public on the fishing industry over the past number of days and, in particular, the overfishing by huge trawlers from Belgium and Spain, and the effects that it is having on our seas and inland fisheries. It has been pointed out to us that salmon stocks have declined by 90% and there was a time when 1.7 million salmon returned to Ireland annually but now that figure is now 150,000. That shows the effect that overfishing is having on the salmon industry. The disappearance of herring from our fish stocks as well is a great worry.

I ask for a very serious debate to be arranged for the next term on the fishing industry comprising, both inland fisheries and sea fisheries. We should also invite the relevant Minister and experts because there is a very strong case to be made to the EU on fishing. We are in a time where people are saying people should not eat meat but eat fish and we also have a declining fish stocks all over our waterways. It is also a worrying time for the fishing industry. Therefore, I think this House would be an ideal place to hold such a debate in the not too distant future.

Photo of Micheál CarrigyMicheál Carrigy (Fine Gael)
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I concur with what Senator Kyne's comments on school transport. There is an issue with school transport in my area and the same probably applies in every part of the country. In my own area there are children who have no school transport, yet we have people who are fully licensed and medically fit to drive buses. They can drive long distances to Cork, Dublin and Galway but they are not allowed to drive a school bus to their local secondary school. Such a scenario does not make sense to me. We need to discuss the matter with trade unions in Bus Éireann who seem to have a stranglehold on the fact that every bus driver must be under 70 years of age and I will give an example. My uncle owns a transport company. As he is over 70 years of age, he must get his son to drive ten miles to their local school to drop the kids while he can drive a bus to Cork or Galway and can bring children to a school football match or whatever; he is medically fit to drive a bus. It does not make sense. Kids are being left at home and that should not happen.

I concur with Senator Mullen, who has just left, because I, too, am concerned about the independence of the commission. The three-day waiting period needs to be looked at. In any review, including a legislative review, one analyses both sides and listen to everybody but I do not think that has happened in this case. We need to examine the matter again and listen to everybody.

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Horkan made the point that diplomatic relations are always important. Diplomatic relations have been never more important than now in terms of the relationships that we have with both EU countries and countries outside of the EU. I would like to add my voice of congratulations to Mr. Rodney Walshe who has served as Honorary Consul General in New Zealand. It is quite incredible that he has given 40 years of service in a voluntary capacity. I wish him well in his life and I have no doubt that he will continue to work on behalf of Irish people, particularly in New Zealand.

Senator Horkan also made a special plea for people to be vigilant on the roads over the forthcoming bank holiday weekend. It has been a very tragic year as many people have been killed and injured who were pedestrians, car drivers and motorcyclists. As the Senator said, a lot of this about enforcement and education but vigilance is also really important. As he said, accidents happen a split second. I agree with him that we can all use our social media accounts to call it out and to say how important road safety is. I thank him for his suggestion. The Senator has also asked for a debate on Dublin Airport and I certainly will request that.

Senator Joe O'Reilly spoke about the budget and improvements for children, and the need to do more with CAMHS and to reduce waiting lists. Last week, a number of us met the Taoiseach about a child poverty unit. I made the point that children are doubly disadvantaged, particularly those who need extra interventions and supports. The child poverty unit certainly has a role to play in all that. The Senator has made a noble call and this issue is something to which we always need to respond.

Senator Mullen spoke about the Joint Committee on Health meeting last week in terms of the review on abortion legislation, the survey of 58 women who had undergone abortions and professionals and the mandatory three-day period. He questioned the independence of the independent chairperson. I will not comment on that one way or the other. I am not a member of the joint committee. I have no doubt that Senator Mullen made his views and observations very well known at meetings of the Joint Committee on Health, as he does here and he is perfectly entitled to do that. The Senator mentioned that there was no mention or query about the practice in other jurisdictions. We always need to examine best practice in other jurisdictions and, therefore, it is important that we call for the information to be made available. I recall when the report came out asking questions about the 2% of women who had not come back after the three-day period. From memory, I was told at the time that this may have been due to women miscarrying or whatever. We need to have a little bit more on the matter.

Senator Boylan spoke about Gaza and the welcome release of hostages. Again, she painted the very horrific picture of what is happening there. Everyone is bearing witness to the horrific and shocking situation that we are seeing in Gaza. As I have mentioned before, having visited the region and made friends both in Gaza and Israel through a kibbutz in which I worked, it is shocking to see the situation in hospitals. The Senator outlined a number of statistics. Yesterday, we learned that 1,500 pregnant women are expecting babies in the next 60 days. Obviously, they are getting ready to deliver but there are no supports whatsoever for them at the moment. The Senator was right to call out the European Parliament and the US. I do not know how anyone can say that a ceasefire would only help Hamas and I was incredibly shocked when I heard that.

Photo of Paul GavanPaul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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Well said.

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I am not being political but I think that the Tánaiste and, indeed, the Taoiseach are saying very important words. They really are calling out the atrocities for what they are. They have called for an immediate ceasefire while giving €13 million to Palestine. I know that every one of us here echoes that, following our debates last week.I thank Senator Boylan for calling that out. We need to do that every day.

Senator Wall spoke about the Castledermot youth diversion project and how important it is to acknowledge the work that is going on, and he is absolutely right. It is important that we show there is another path for young people who are vulnerable and who need those extra supports. He called for extra funding from the Department of Justice. Last year, I had the opportunity to visit another such project in Newbridge with the Minister of State, Deputy Browne. They do incredible work so I agree with that. Senator Wall also asked for a debate on sports funding. The sports funding system we have is really good. Extra measures were brought in this year by the Minister, Deputy Byrne, with regard to ensuring there is support for women in sport and for those with disabilities to ensure we have inclusion. That is really important. There are, therefore, new innovations. I visited one such facility yesterday with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, in Newbridge. The K Leisure gym has changing rooms and modified equipment for those with disabilities. Every gym in the country should have this and funding should be made available for it. I agree with that.

Senator Malcolm Byrne spoke about the very tragic deaths of Aidan Moffitt and Michael Snee, and the bravery of Anthony Burke in alerting gardaí and working with them to make sure the perpetrator was caught. It is shocking to see the rising levels of homophobia and transphobia. I offer our sympathy and commiserations on the deaths of Aidan and Michael to those within the LGBT community because it must be a very difficult place at the moment. I also read that report of the Fundamental Rights Agency regarding the rise of racism and antisemitism in Ireland. It is absolutely very concerning. We need a debate around tolerance and acceptance. Democracy is more than about elections. Democracy is also about giving respect to the people with whom we share our communities and countries. Maybe we could all agree to a cross-party motion on the tolerance that is needed. I suggest that we draft a motion and send it to all Members. That will go to all parties and independent Members. We will seek time to debate that after the recess.

Senator Maria Byrne spoke about Ms Jodie Whyte, a female apprentice of her acquaintance. I mentioned yesterday when I was taking the Order of Business Ms Hazel Johnston who won apprentice of the year. It is the first time a woman has ever won it. It is important to point that out. It is great to see Shannon Airport coming back to itself and now having more people flying than pre-Covid. I say well done to the team there. It is important that we have regional balance in terms of flights.

Senator Boyhan sought a debate on rural housing. I am delighted to hear that the British–Irish Parliamentary Assembly went so well in my own county of Kildare. I could not agree more in terms of supporting people being able to build houses on their own land. It is hugely important at a time the price of housing is so high for anybody who has access to family land, obviously, bearing in mind environmental guidelines, sightline guidelines, etc., to be able to build on it. They absolutely should have that opportunity. There is a debate scheduled on 7 November with the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien. It is important that we raise the issue at that point.

Senator Fitzpatrick spoke about the merits of Dublin city but also about the litter and rubbish on our streets and how Dublin City Council needs to take more action. We certainly will write to it. However, maybe at a national level we need to set our standards higher. There is a role for the Department in this regard. Dublin is not alone in terms of litter and rubbish. Irish Business Against Litter, IBAL, to be fair to it, came together quite a few years ago and brought about a concerted effort with regard to highlighting where improvements have been made and calling out where there have not been any. It is really important that we look for accountability at a national level. We have a role in that as well. We will talk to the Minister about that.

Senator Lombard and, indeed, Senators Kyne and Burke, spoke about the situation with the dairy industry and nitrates in Ireland with regard to the two different zones. I speak to farmers every day in County Kildare about this issue. Obviously, this is down to the EU regulations. Part of the problem is that regulations change every few years. To be fair to our farming community, they are told what the vision is from a European context and how that translates into actions in Ireland. They invest and put their own money in as well as, of course, availing of supports and then a few years later the advice changes. It is a really difficult situation for them. The Minister, Deputy McConalogue, has been working on this and several announcements were made in the budget to support farmers in the transitions that have to be made. We will not have the situation that has been painted this morning. That is fearmongering among farmers and I do not think that is fair. I will outline some of the measures that have been brought in. Funding of €700 million has been secured to support farm families in their efforts to tackle the challenges we have. This all came down to, obviously, water quality and the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, monitoring. The support will be made at rates of 40% and 60%. It is really important. The Minister has also sought approval to introduce a dedicated support measure to provide 70% for manure storage facilities and import livestock manure under a contract relationship. All of these are important. There is certainly more work to do. However, we will ask the Minister to come to the House and tell us what the latest update is in that regard.

Senator Doherty spoke about the situation in both constituencies in Fingal, neither of which has a swimming pool. I am shocked to hear that. We always feel a poor relation in County Kildare where we have two swimming pools in mid- and south Kildare. The agreement is that the next one will be in the north of the county. I have been fighting for years to get one in Newbridge. I am shocked to hear there is not one in that constituency. In terms of looking for the site in Castleland, as the Senator said, I once learned a very valuable lesson in Newbridge when we were doing a development plan. As part of an agreement on zoning land, a landowner agreed to give a certain portion over to the community. The problem was that the site was never actually identified on the map at that particular time and it then disappeared. While we did have the text, the map always supersedes it. It always has to be on the map. Sometimes we get all the best advice in the world and people will say that the agreement has been made and things will happen afterwards in terms of agreement between the local authority and landowner or land developer. If it is not put down 100% in writing, it disappears. We will help to try to secure that, however. It is really important. Children should have the opportunity to learn how to swim. Even though there are lovely beaches, as the Senator said, we need to be able to do it all year round. We certainly will see what we can do.

I know Senator Gavan to be a true humanitarian from his work in this House as well as at the Council of Europe. He is right. Sometimes we highlight a situation. Russia and Ukraine took the headlines for so long, and still deserve to do so, but now it is Palestine and Israel that deserve to be in the headlines. Unfortunately, however, we have situations that slip under the radar and the world looks away. The genocide against Kurds in Syria is shocking and appalling. We will seek to have a debate. Many requests are coming in but we will see when we can fit it into the schedule. I will certainly raise it with the Tánaiste as well.

I will say to Senator Kyne that while speaking about agriculture, I did not mention the targeted agriculture modernisation scheme, TAMS, 3, which is being developed at the moment. He also raised the issue of school transport. I could not agree more, but there seems to be no movement whatsoever with Córas Iompair Éireann, CIÉ, and Bus Éireann. We have to take it beyond the Department of Education. The Department has tried so we need to take it up with the Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, to try to talk sense. It is absolutely ridiculous that we have one rule in one situation.We are always talking about people growing older and pushing out retirement ages. Here we have a cohort of people who are willing to work but rules that have been put in place other than through legislation or by the Department of Education are preventing them for doing so. We will take that issue up with the Minister, Deputy Ryan.

I do not know the details in respect of the person who does not have a school place. That situation is shocking. I do not know whether it relates to a primary, secondary or special school. I ask the Senator to send me the details of the matter. It is a horrific situation. The least anyone can expect is a school place and it is absolutely wrong that the person in question does not have one. I am happy to take the matter up on the Senator's behalf.

Senator Burke spoke about overfishing and issues relating to the decline of salmon and the disappearance of herring. When we heard of the death of Bobby Charlton last week, many of us thought about his brother Jack, who loved to fish for salmon on the River Moy in Ballina. The Senator has called for a debate on the matter. We will look for that in time.

Senator Carrigy, too, spoke about the school transport situation. Obviously, the budget put far more money into trying to get that sorted out. The only way we can sort out school transport, apart from getting more drivers, is for every child who goes to school to have the opportunity to avail of school transport, no matter where he or she lives. We know from the work we do in our constituencies of all the traffic issues near schools at pinch-point times. If there was a proper school transport system where children were collected and brought to school, those issues would be avoided. That is the way we must go forward. We are awaiting the review, which is due in the coming weeks. We will schedule a debate on that review when we receive it.

Order of Business agreed to.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 12.32 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 12.45 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 12.32 p.m. and resumed at 12.45 p.m.