Seanad debates
Thursday, 22 June 2023
Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters
Crime Prevention
9:30 am
Emer Currie (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for Justice for taking this Commencement matter this morning. We are here to talk about antisocial behaviour and an increase in knife crime in urban communities. I wish to pay my respects to the family of Aaron Keating in Ongar. Tragically, he was a victim of knife crime last week. There are no excuses for the taking of a life in these circumstances. The impact of an assault of this nature on a community is enormous and brings the concerns about public safety in communities and community safety to the fore. It is justified and necessary for us to do everything we can to protect people from something like this happening again, so I hope we can have a frank and honest conversation about that this morning.
I know the Minister knows better than anybody else the impact of the closure of Templemore on Garda recruitment and that she is investing in a high-profile campaign to recruit 1,000 gardaí with a rolling intake but Garda visibility is the number one concern people have following this incident. Community gardaí are prioritising incidents and call outs in communities and, therefore, they have less time for a steady Garda presence on our main streets and in areas of footfall. I thank them for the job they do.
I looked at the Garda report for Blanchardstown in May that covered 2022. It stated that numbers for possession of an offensive weapon are down 53% with 27 takes versus 57. The detection rate in searches remains high at 67% but I wonder if An Garda Síochána has the same time for this type of intervention post-Covid. Having spoken to the superintendent in our district yesterday, it seems public order offences and assaults have decreased in Ongar recently but I know people see drug dealing in the village, the damage caused by antisocial behaviour and large numbers of teenagers hanging around the area, although this does not always mean they are up to no good.
The Parliamentary Budget Office tells us that we have 291 gardaí for every 100,000 inhabitants. When you look across Europe, you can see that this would not be top of the list. When we look at areas like Ongar, where there has been such an increase in housing developments, which is a good thing, people are not seeing a comparable increase in Garda numbers and, therefore, they feel that lack of visibility.
The issue of a new Garda station in Ongar is back on the agenda. I fully support this call but it depend on resources. There is no point in having a building if you do not have the increased resources to run it and be present in the community.
There is an active youth work culture and services in the area. There is a youth café on Thursday night in Phibblestown as well as programme for teenagers. We have a youth diversion project and we have seen the recent positive results of those projects with an 80% to 98% success rate that is lower if drugs are involved. I know from talking to youth workers in the area that they feel education and awareness is a big issue, that carrying knives is happening and that young people do not realise the implications and consequences. Targeted support works but we need to back up that with universal youth work in general.
Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for raising this really important matter today. I would like to extend my sympathies to the family of Aaron Keating and anybody who has been affected by knife crime. Any kind of death is devastating but when somebody is murdered in this way, it has a ripple effect throughout the entire community. It is important to note, and the Senator touched on this, that for the most part, Ireland is a very safe country. Our crime rates are low compared to other similar jurisdictions. The Senator mentioned that evidence shows that assaults are down. That is across the country. There are many crime statistics showing that particular types of crime are down and the confiscation of knives is up. I am very conscious of the way knife crime has gone in the UK and aim to ensure this does not take hold here. When it comes to knife crime, the concern is often is that this is a weapon that is readily available. People talk about having an amnesty or trying to take knives out of the system but when you have a weapon that is in the kitchen of every home across the country, it is a challenge we need to deal with by way of education and making sure An Garda Síochána has the resources and young people are educated at a very early age to know that this is not the route they should go down.
We need a comprehensive and robust legal framework with respect to knife crime that makes sure there are heavy penalties for those who take that path. The maximum penalty under the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act for conviction for possessing a knife in a public place without good reason or lawful authority was increased from one year to five years, so you can get five years for simply possessing a knife, which is quite a severe penalty but a correct one. We are increasing the maximum sentence for assault causing harm from five to ten years. Again, this is correct. At the moment, when a person harms another person and the victim makes a full recovery, by the time you add up the various different measures that must be taken, the offender might serve very little time for what is a very serious crime.
Knife crime is not classified in crime statistics compiled by An Garda Síochána. This is because knives may be used in the commission of many different types of offence ranging from threats and intimidation, robbery and theft to serious assaults and murder. As a result, there are no quick-fix solutions to which we can point. Long-term, evidence-based strategies are needed to tackle this as part of a wider response to antisocial behaviour, street violence, youth offending and domestic violence as, unfortunately, knives are used in the vast majority of homicides inside the home.
I am committed to bringing all of this together be it specific to knife crime, looking at antisocial behaviour, looking at youth justice interventions, looking at education and looking at how we can support An Garda Síochána. The Senator mentioned Garda numbers. It is frustrating for everybody that we had started to get a good flow of numbers coming out of Templemore after it being closed for so many years. Covid hit and that obviously put a stop to it and the numbers began to slow down again. After two very successful recruitment campaigns, the numbers are increasing every intake. The next intake will be on 31 July and there will be a following intake in October.That will continue as long as it needs to in order to get all the numbers up.
I know that in the area mentioned by the Senator there has been an increase in Garda numbers. It has gone from 688 to 706 in recent years. Obviously, we would like to see that number being much higher because, as the Senator rightly said, it is not the gardaí chasing from scene to scene or going from one incident to the next, but those who are on the ground, in the community, linking in with young people and talking to and getting to know them, which is often the biggest deterrent in these instances and which very much helps a community come together.
That is my number one priority. Just this week I met with the Garda Commissioner to discuss Garda numbers and to ensure we have gardaí on the street trying to deal with the issues the Senator mentioned. That is and will continue to be my priority.
Emer Currie (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for her response. One issue which has come up in the past few days is the investigation time for knife crime. I believe it is only 24 hours as opposed to a week if there was a firearm involved. Gardaí have said to me that that would be something that might help.
I am also interested in the work that is happening on the community safety partnerships, the Minister’s expert forum on antisocial behaviour, and her subgroup on knife crime with regard to what the next steps are. I am looking to places like Scotland, which treats violence and knife crime like a public health issue and which looks at the underlying issues. I do not believe we are in the same space. This is about early intervention and prevention but at the moment knife crime is increasing. It has increased by 78% over seven years, although I know we have got better at detecting it.
In 2018, 16% of people who were suspected offenders in knife crimes were under 18. The Minister is, rightly, ensuring this is on the agenda. What is coming next in respect of the community safety partnerships?
Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I will touch on a few points there. The length of time An Garda Síochána can hold a person in respect of knife crime is going to change in the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill going through the Houses and which I hope will be enacted before the summer recess.
The Senator mentioned the expert forum on antisocial behaviour. A piece of work is being done through the forum to look at other jurisdictions, Scotland being one of them. In Scotland they engage to a significant degree with the hospitals, the data and the statistics and this then feeds into the policy they have. That work is ongoing at the moment to try to inform what we are doing.
Again, coming back to the preventative piece, the Youth Justice Strategy 2021-2027 saw an increase of about €6 million last year and funding is now at about €24 million which means we can expand on the youth diversion programmes and can invest to a greater degree in more communities. This year alone, four new programmes are being developed. Investment is happening, research is under way and there is a strong criminal justice response in regard to the penalties there. We are also trying to increase Garda numbers. All of this, collectively, is the way we can respond.
On the Senator’s last point, we must ensure people own what is happening in their communities. We have three pilot programmes for our community safety partnerships. We have Drogheda and a number of other areas where similar projects are under way. This will now roll out into communities over the next few years to ensure that not just the gardaí, but our health services, education services, community members and everybody, have a say in setting a plan as to what keeps them safe in their areas.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for being present this morning and I welcome her back. It is great to have a Minister at Cabinet taking Commencement matters, for which I am very grateful.