Seanad debates
Tuesday, 30 May 2023
Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters
Retained Fire Service
1:00 pm
Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I also extend a welcome to Councillor Patrick Murphy and his friends on their day in Leinster House.
I recently attended an event commemorating the brave service of members of Monaghan Auxiliary Fire Service in the immediate aftermath of the terrible events of the Monaghan bombing on 17 May 1974. The immediate response of those members to a very dangerous, precarious and unknown situation cannot be underestimated. In the past 50 years, firefighters across the length and breadth of the country have responded to thousands of dangerous and unknown situations with professionalism and courage. Unfortunately, right now, our retained fire service is struggling to maintain adequate numbers to allow for safe operations, with crew numbers declining in all counties. This, in turn, is leading to even greater pressure being brought to bear on firefighters retained in the service.
People will be surprised to learn that a whole-time retained firefighter earns approximately €700 per month, which equates to 99 cent per hour. For this, they must be on call 24-7, 360 days a year, stay within 3 km of the station at all times, attend the station within five minutes of a call and attend eight weeks of compulsory training in the first year to qualify as a firefighter. There are also many other restrictions in addition to those. All the retained firefighters are asking for is a fair salary for a very difficult and dangerous job, which involves huge commitment to the local community. Surely it is time to review the role of the whole-time fire firefighter as a professional role within the local authority that deserves proper pay and a decent work-life balance.I understand that negotiations with the LGMA have broken down, which is unfortunate, and strike action has been served on the relevant parties. I ask that everything be done to ensure the strike does not happen, because if it does, the safety of the community will be put at risk. We cannot allow that to happen. All these people are looking for is fair pay for the important job they do.
Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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First, I acknowledge the fact that in recent years there has been huge spending on infrastructure and equipment. Everyone across the board wants to acknowledge that. However, the €5,000 retainer fee is derisory. I know a young fellow who was looking for a loan. The credit union does not take into account the call out-fee which, as my colleague said, works out at approximately 99 cent per hour. The pension for firefighters is also derisory. Many employers do not want to take firefighters on in a full-time job because it is a nuisance. They will be called out in the middle of a job or task and must rush out immediately to the fire station. It is also not conducive to female firefighters which is indicated by the small number of female firefighters across the country. The time and demands on their lives are impossible to meet. In many instances they are first responders. I can give an example. When I had a major seizure on 27 October in Rathfarnham, the first people who came to my rescue were members of the fire brigade from Rathfarnham. They probably saved my life.
Why spend approximately €60,000 on training and recruiting new officers when some will be gone in three or four years. We spend €60,000 on bringing them up to the standard required and then they leave because they cannot cope with the hours and difficulties they face as firefighters. Firefighters in rural Ireland, in Castletownbere, Bantry, Skibbereen, Schull, Dunmanway or Clonakilty, cannot live on the wage, so they must have another job. That is the reality. I am aware that the unions worked out a deal that will expire next year and the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, said they are caught in that. I accept that, but now is the time to plan for next year and to give a commitment to firefighters across the board that they will get better conditions, better pay - the pay is derisory - a better pension and a better way of life. To conclude, these men and women have to go out to deal with emergencies, including suicides. I know of an incident where a man had to be extracted from a slurry tank having fallen in. Firefighters emptied the slurry tank. They do all those kinds of difficult jobs that are hard to deal with. Will the Minister of State seriously look at the situation? I hope he will give us some hope before we leave here today.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Seanadóir O’Donovan. Before the Minister of State speaks I echo all that has been said on this important Commencement matter. I have heard firefighters in my area, Ennistymon, articulate exactly the same set of concerns and frustrations. Both Senators articulated the case extremely well.
Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Acting Chairperson and join with him and Senators Gallagher and O'Donovan in paying tribute to our fire services and its members. I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, who is aware of the challenges associated with the recruitment and retention of retained fire personnel being experienced by some local authorities. That is why the Minister directed the management board of the national directorate for fire and emergency management, NDFEM, to review the delivery and sustainability of the local authority retained fire services, with particular emphasis on the recruitment and retention of staff. Following substantial engagement with retained firefighters, staff representatives, fire service senior management and local authority employers and indepth research and analysis of the current model, a review was published in December 2022 entitled, Retained Fire Services in Ireland - A Review of Recruitment and Retention and the Future Sustainability of Service Delivery. The findings of the review report endorsed many of the ideas in the remarks made by Senators Gallagher and O'Donovan. In summary, the work-life balance of retained firefighters needs to be addressed to ensure the sustainability of retained fire services as an attractive employment option. All parties accept the findings of the report as a fair reflection of the current state of retained fire service provision and agree with the need to pursue the implementation of the recommendations made, to ensure the sustainability of retained fire services.Work is under way through the agreed structures to begin implementing the recommendations set out in this report and that will include active engagement with staff representatives in the retained fire services.
The report recommendations aim to enhance the model of service delivery by maintaining the strength of retained fire services, while addressing the issues acting as a barrier to recruitment and retention, which have been raised by Senators Gallagher and O'Donovan. The significant challenge in delivering change is balancing the organisational requirement and ability to respond with the life needs of each individual retained firefighter. Two plenary sessions of facilitation discussions on the priority industrial relations, IR, issues have already taken place between management and representatives of SIPTU, chaired by a third party intermediary. The key deliverable, agreed by both sides, was a revised composite agreement to standardise future employment terms and conditions across all local authorities reflecting the retained review recommendations.
During the most recent discussions held between management and SIPTU, substantial progress was made in addressing the work-life balance concerns of retained firefighters, as acknowledged by SIPTU. A positive conclusion to the process, to the satisfaction of all parties, has not been possible to date and, accordingly, SIPTU representatives have indicated the intention of retained firefighters to commence a period of escalating industrial action from 6 June. Management remains available to recommence discussions with a view to resolving outstanding IR matters and the Minister encourages all parties to use the agreed IR processes set out in the Building Momentum pay agreement to bring matters to a satisfactory conclusion as soon as possible.
Should a period of industrial action commence on 6 June, local authorities will put in place appropriate contingency measures to ensure the ongoing provision of essential services is maintained. SIPTU has confirmed that the response to emergency calls and normal health and safety measures will not be compromised during any period of industrial action. A national fire safety awareness campaign will run over traditional and social media and will reinforce home fire safety messaging to the public. However, the Government encourages all parties to continue to engage constructively in resolving the outstanding IR issues within the established forum and the structures set out under the Building Momentum public service agreement. I assure Senators Gallagher and O'Donovan and the Acting Chairman that I will bring their concerns directly to the Minister this evening and draw his attention to this debate.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Given the importance of the issue, I will use the Chair's discretion and give my colleagues a minute each to respond.
Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the latitude shown by the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach.
I thank the Minister of State for his response. He mentioned the review. I very much welcome the review and its findings have been accepted and endorsed by the relevant parties. I attended a demonstration in Dublin six months ago by fire service personnel from all over the country, including County Monaghan. Six months have passed and unfortunately we seem to be at an impasse. I spoke to some firefighters yesterday who told me that training courses they were meant to undertake had been cancelled because of the upcoming industrial action. There is a safety issue here as regards communities. I ask the Minister of State to stress to the Minister the importance of trying to find a resolution to this dispute. I ask that the Minister contact both parties again with a view to encouraging them to go back to the table to find a resolution that will be acceptable to all parties. It is important that our communities can feel safe in the knowledge that, in the event of an emergency, the fire service personnel will be on the end of the line when they need them as they always have been.
Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach for his indulgence.
The commitment and dedication of firefighters in unparalleled. Firefighting is a vocation rather than just a job because if a person did not have the appetite for that job, he or she would not be doing it. They would want to be, as we say in west Cork, as tough as táthfhéithleann. One example that worried me recently was when a young councillor colleague, not my friend who is here today, told me of a case of young man who went for a job in a local authority. He had all sorts of qualifications, had perfect references, was able to drive machinery and would have been a perfect candidate. It appeared to him after the interview that he was going to get the job. When it emerged that he was a member of the fire brigade in a certain town, the job suddenly vanished.The local authority in question, Cork County Council, did not want a man employed by it to be a firefighter because it would impede his normal working duties. That is an appalling scenario.
I thank the Acting Chair for his indulgence. I also thank my colleague, Senator Gallagher, who allowed me to share his time. He was in pole position and allowed me to come in with him, which I appreciate. I hope we will have positive news before the year is out. None of the guys and girls I know want to go on strike. They do not want that. It is the last option available to them.
Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I endorse what the Senators have said. These people are our family, friends and neighbours. Every time of year, they are available to put themselves in danger to save us. That is particularly true with the gorse fires at this time of year. Senator O'Donovan is right that they do not want to be on strike. I will reflect to the Minister when I meet him the strong feeling of the House.