Seanad debates
Tuesday, 10 December 2019
Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters
Joint Labour Committees
1:30 pm
Gerry Horkan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor, back to the House. She is very welcome.
Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I want to discuss terms, conditions and pay in the hospitality sector and the need for the Government to be much more proactive in trying to establish a joint labour committee in the sector. I have raised this with a number of the Minister of State's colleagues and I will ask her some of the same questions. I regret to say I did not get any answers on previous occasions, but I am optimistic today.
I will get straight to the heart of this issue. The average rate of pay in the hospitality sector according to the Government's CSO statistics for June this year is €12.54 per hour, a figure which includes the highest paid people in the sector. The bulk of the people in the sector, that is, the people who are changing our beds, serving our drinks and working behind counters get considerably less than €12.54 per hour. For the large part, they are earning the minimum wage or just above it. A EUROSTAT comparison done by Michael Taft showed that compared with people working in hospitality in other parts of the EU, our people would need a 50% pay rise just to gain equity with them. I have stated these statistics because I am sometimes told I have picked some bad examples. These are the statistics for the hospitality sector as a whole. People in the sector are paid 50% less than their European counterparts.
The terms and conditions in the sector are pretty appalling. I will give one example from the best hotel in Limerick, which I will not name. A contract states, in respect of a working week, that, "As a casual employee your hours will be communicated to you by the departmental rota." In other words, people do not know what hours they are working from one week to the next. I checked with some colleagues in hotels last week whether this is still the case, and nothing has changed since new legislation was introduced. Not only are hotel workers paid appallingly, most of the time they do not know what hours they will work from one week to the next.
I will read out some of the details of the findings of an independent research study by Dr. Deirdre Curran from NUI Galway on how people are treated in the sector: 76% of respondents to the survey said they experienced verbal abuse sometimes or often; 64% of workers in the hospitality sector said they experienced psychological abuse sometimes or often; 15% said they experienced physical abuse sometimes or often; 52% said they do not get the breaks they are entitled to; 42% said they had no written record of their contract term; 16% said they had no access to payslips; 55% said they had witnessed or experienced harassment based on sexuality, age or race, I know the Minister of State will be aware that most of the people we are talking about in the sector are women; 63% said they had experienced or witnessed bullying; and 48% said they had no voice or access to union representation.
My point is that we need action from the Government. We cannot let this appalling treatment of workers continue in the sector. I hope the Minister of State will have something positive to say today.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Gavan. I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Heather Humphreys. As we know, joint labour committees are bodies established to provide machinery for fixing statutory minimum rates of pay and conditions of employment for employees across certain sectors. They are composed of equal numbers of representatives of employers and workers in an employment sector. The committee meets under an independent chairman and industrial relations officers of the Workplace Relations Commission appointed by the relevant Minister to discuss and agree proposals for terms and conditions to apply to specified grades or categories of workers in the sector concerned.If agreement is reached on the terms and conditions the joint labour committee, JLC, publishes the details and invites submissions from interested parties. After consideration of the submissions, the committee accepts the proposals. It then submits them to the Labour Court for consideration. The court will then make a recommendation to the Minister and, providing the correct procedures under the legislation have been followed by the court, an order known as an employment regulation order, ERO, will be signed into law. There are currently eight JLCs in place. Of these, two are relevant to the hospitality sector, one is in the hotels industry and one is in the catering industry.
Separately, sectoral employment orders, SEOs, set out the terms and conditions for workers in the economic sector to which they apply. There are currently three SEOs in place in the construction, electrical contracting and mechanical engineering sectors. The process to put an SEO in place begins when a request is formally made to the Labour Court under the legislation to review the terms and conditions for workers in a particular economic sector. A request to the Labour Court can be made separately or jointly by organisations that substantially represent employers or workers, such as a trade union or an employers' body. Again, the role of the Minister is to ensure that the Labour Court has followed the procedures set out in legislation. I must emphasise the voluntary nature of Ireland's approach to industrial relations. Our role is to provide a statutory framework within which parties can come together voluntarily.
Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I appreciate that the Minister of State is standing in for a colleague, but that is a particularly disappointing response. I am aware of the statutory framework. The fact of the matter is that the employer bodies have refused to engage with it. That begs a question to which no-one has been able to give me an answer. If someone works in the hospitality sector, how does he or she get a pay rise? I have not heard anyone explain that to me. Deputy Mitchell O'Connor will be the third Minister I have asked. I have had no response whatsoever. I have reeled off statistics to show the appalling rates of pay. These are Government statistics. This is not a handful of hotels, but a statistical representation of the sector. There are appalling rates of pay, appalling terms and conditions and precarious work, but the members of the Government appear to be sitting with their arms folded, saying it is nothing to do with them. That is not good enough.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator. I emphasise the voluntary nature of Ireland's long-standing approach to industrial relations, including the JLCs. I nearly said "language" there because it was in my head. I was previously before the Seanad to speak about English language schools. I was the one who proposed an employment regulation order for teachers in English language schools. I am not sure if the Senator knows about that.
Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I am fully aware of it and I supported it.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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It has been agreed and will be given statutory effect from December 2019. To return to the Senator's question, it is the role of the State to ensure an appropriate legislative process. We have a strong suite of legislation covering employment rights in areas such as minimum rates of pay. Regarding the area I was in charge of, I am really proud that I put an ERO in place, working with the various stakeholders and the Labour Court. I am really glad I was the one who proposed it and we now have that order for English language schools.
Gerry Horkan (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State and Senator Gavan. That concludes the first Commencement debate. The second Commencement debate is in the name of Senator Robbie Gallagher. I believe the Minister of State is multitasking today and will address this one as well.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Yes.