Seanad debates
Thursday, 20 October 2016
Commencement Matters
Garda Vetting of Personnel
10:30 am
Neale Richmond (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Kyne, to the House. This is an issue I have raised before with another Minister of State in the Department and it has not changed. From the outset, I would like to put on record that, when we are dealing with children and the most vulnerable in society, it is vital that the highest level of protection and vetting is afforded. However, that does not excuse the fact the current system is not fit for purpose.
When I brought this up before the summer recess with the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, he assured me the waiting time for Garda vetting was down to just five weeks. I have had dozens of cases brought to the attention of my office where it is clearly well beyond five weeks. A number of applications that were made in August still have not been dealt with and it is now late October, and I know of two applications that took at least three months to go through.
Where I find there is a lot of confusion is in regard to the requirement for multiple and duplicate vetting. For example, if someone is already Garda vetted to, for example, coach under-15s rugby in a secondary school, the same person needs to be vetted again to coach under-15s rugby in a different school or club. We are constantly hearing from people who require multiple vetting. There is a sports provision company that works in secondary schools. It has ten coaches on the books who go to schools all across Ireland but they need to be vetted for every single school. Instead of being vetted once, the company has to get the same individual, with the same background, vetted ten times for the same activity.
This is leading to inordinate delays and leading to businesses not being able to get the right people in place. It is putting huge pressure on parents who are not sure that these services can be provided. A further problem is that these businesses are not able to take on anyone for work experience or training because of the various requirements. They know that if they were to take on a person for, say, a two-month placement, it would take at least two months to get the person vetted, so they would not go through with it. Another area is in the provision of pre-school care, where to get a substitute teacher for a crèche or Montessori school at very short notice, the teacher has to be vetted not just to teach the activity to the age group but be vetted for the school in question. This is unlike the position with secondary and primary schools, where there is a central database.
The issue is very topical at the moment, given the Minister, Deputy Bruton, has rightly said in the past two weeks that, for the ASTI's upcoming industrial action, he will look to bring in parents and people from the school community to cover playground supervision and others duties that are being withdrawn separate to the actual strike days. When I did my leaving certificate many years ago, the ASTI only went on strike for five days officially but it worked to rule for an additional 11 days, so those in my school missed 16 full days because we were unable to bring in parents or other staff to do the supervision. This industrial action is due to start next month and there is no way that parents will be vetted in time to do this, even though the vast majority of those who might be willing to volunteer their time are already vetted for other activities, often in the school, be it coaching rugby or soccer, looking after drama clubs, debating and so on.
I believe there is an unnecessary amount of bureaucracy and duplication for a process that, while important, could be simplified and improved. I would like to hear what the Minister of State has to say.
Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Richmond for raising this issue. I am taking this matter on behalf of the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald.
The primary purpose of the Garda National Vetting Bureau is to seek to ensure the safety of children and vulnerable adults. While every effort is made to make the system as efficient as possible, as is always desirable, it cannot be at the expense of this core function.Full vetting checks are conducted by the Garda vetting unit for each new vetting application received, to ensure the most recent data available are taken into account. This is because once there has been any significant lapse of time between one employment and another, the original Garda vetting disclosure must be reviewed to take account of any changes in information, such as more recent criminal convictions.
Furthermore, under the Data Protection Acts, any sensitive personal data which employers use in regard to their employees must be current, accurate and up to date. Importantly, the general non-transferability and contemporaneous nature of the current process also protects against the risk of fraud or forgery. There are certain limited circumstances where organisations can share a single vetting disclosure where this is agreed to by the vetting applicant, for example, persons involved in voluntary work with more than one organisation at the same time. Similar arrangements can arise in the health and education sectors.
The Tánaiste is, however, pleased to inform the Senator that 80% of vetting applications are now being processed by the National Vetting Bureau in five working days through a system that reflects best practice internationally. In circumstances where there is such a sustained reduction in processing times, the issue of vetting transferability becomes something of a moot point. This vast improvement on the turnaround times of 14 weeks in 2013 comes about primarily as a result of significant investment by the Government in the National Vetting Bureau, in particular, the launch in April this year of the bureau’s new e-vetting system. All organisations are encouraged to avail of this service and 85% of organisations registered for vetting already use it.
Some cases will of their nature take longer than the average to complete. Vetting applications that continue to be submitted in the old paper format take four weeks from the receipt of the application, and there will always be certain cases whose natures demand more extensive inquiry. Delays can also occur in the application process which are outside of the control of the bureau. In that regard, one very welcome feature of the e-vetting system is that it allows applicants to track the progress of their applications. The Garda authorities will continue to work with all organisations to bring them into the e-vetting procedure.
Neale Richmond (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his very detailed response. Some of its elements were reassuring, but I must take issue with other elements of the reply. If it were the case the procedure takes five working days I would not have tabled this Commencement matter. I would not receive so many phone calls from service providers, schools or sports clubs. Does this mean five working days is spent on vetting? What is the all-in process time, from the moment the application is made until the vetting is granted? There is absolutely no way it is being processed in five working days. The figure from 2013 of 14 weeks is a far more accurate reflection of the queries I receive, which are from people using the e-vetting system. I also take issue with the fact paper applications supposedly take four weeks.
In the coming weeks, will the Minister of State see whether the Tánaiste will come back to me to detail this process and see where it could be ironed out? If the five working days information is accurate, and I query it, there is absolutely no reason for transferability, and I agree with the Minister of State on this, but I remain convinced it is not accurate. We have people in positions, be it teaching in schools, coaching or working with children in various clubs or associations, who are active and the vetting is being put into practice, but they cannot transfer to another body. This is an area where we could remove an element of duplicity, particularly in real-time. I am not speaking about someone who was vetted four or five years ago, but someone who was vetted several weeks ago and is still working in a school or club setting. It is ideal that their vetting should be able to be transferred to another body.
Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste would like me to emphasise that the purpose of the Garda employment vetting service is to seek to ensure the safety of children and vulnerable adults. Accordingly, the vetting process demands rigorous procedures to safeguard its integrity and to maintain the highest level of confidence by the public and organisations availing of the service. Any vetting process will take a certain minimum amount of time to complete and, given the importance of this service, the Tánaiste does not consider that processing times of five days are at all unreasonable, although I will ask her to come back to the Senator to show the veracity of this. I accept that not many people processed within five days will come to the Senator to thank him for this. He will only hear from those who suffer inordinate delays in processing. This is not the same for everybody.
E-vetting has contributed significantly to improving the vetting service, and the Government and the Garda authorities are committed to sustaining this level of service going forward. Most organisations are now signed up to e-vetting, and there are great benefits to this for them and vetting applicants. As I stated, individuals can track their own applications on the system. The Garda vetting bureau works with the registered organisations on an ongoing basis to maintain quality and standards in respect of the process. The Garda authorities continue to work also with the other registered organisations to bring them on board.
I take on board and will convey to the Tánaiste the Senator's concerns about ongoing delays and the veracity of the figures quoted regarding processing times. What the Senator is speaking about makes sense with regard to transferability where there are delays. I will ask the Tánaiste to come back to verify the five working days as reported by the National Vetting Bureau.