Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Senators for their contributions. I appreciate their engagement. I will try to respond in the time I have available to a couple of the points that have been raised. There will be a fuller opportunity as we move to subsequent Stages to thrash out the details and, of course, any amendments that might come forward on those Stages.

Senator Blaney is right about the impact it has had. As I said, and other Senators have reflected, this is about human health and the capacity of communities and citizens to live, insofar as possible, in a clean air environment. It is not about climate change, quite frankly, although that is important. It is principally about bronchial health. It is about particulate matter in the air and trying to get rid of that insofar as we can.

Senators Blaney, Duffy and Collins talked about the North-South dimension. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, and his officials are, through the ministerial council, in regular contact, and I believe there is a meeting to discuss that.

Senator Blaney rightly identified the Border trade. When I was a Member of this House and had responsibility as spokesperson in this area, I regularly looked for movement and for this Bill to come forward because there is an illicit trade across the Border. That is why the provisions are set out on forfeiture and seizure of equipment because it is very hard to bring people before the courts who dip in and dip out of the jurisdiction, but if you can take their equipment before they get back across the Border, that is certainly a way to address the issue. Of course, anybody that is involved in any act that is contrary to the law is subject to the laws here, but trying to apply that is more difficult when people reside outside the State.Therefore, the fixed penalty and forfeiture notices constitute a recognition of the issues.

The broader point was made that if we retrofitted more homes, we reduced the necessity of using solid fuel. Senator Collins identified her journey in that regard. We recognise that an element of solid fuel continues to play a part for some for historical, cultural and practical reasons that have been identified.

In response to Senator O'Reilly, that does not relate to the provisions of this Bill. The Bill goes nowhere near any attachment to turbary rights or anything relating to individual homes. She spoke about councils being able to identify any individual willy-nilly and seeking to appoint him or her and give him or her powers to enter homes, etc. That is not the case. Warrants will be required. In respect of forfeiture, An Garda Síochána would have to be involved, along with Revenue officials, so this is not just about picking the next person in the line and giving him or her draconian powers. That is not at all what is envisaged.

Section 53K relates to registration bodies that will register producers, transporters and retailers and nothing else. It does not involve house searches or house entry, so I ask Senator O'Reilly to read that again. I do not want to suggest that she has not read it but she may be misunderstanding what we intend to do here. There is nothing further that relates to turbary rights. This is not about the individual. It is about the commercial operators and principally those acting in an anti-competitive way against those who are complying with the law. It is about improving the powers that are there relating to that.

It is important to recognise that there are things we can do for people in their communities. More supports can be provided in respect of clean spaces and greener initiatives in communities. That is really important. In their town plans, many local authorities are working really well towards having open spaces, a lot more foliage and far more green space, which will also have a beneficial impact on the quality of the air we breathe. That is really important.

Senators Blaney and Duffy spoke about the necessity of moving more quickly with regard to retrofitting. In 2000, we had a plan to get about 500,000 houses retrofitted by 2030. I think we are probably retrofitting homes at a rate of between 60,000 and 70,000 per year. Covid obviously had an impact on the roll-out of that but that is the way forward. Many Senators will be familiar with the warmer homes scheme because they host clinics and meet people on an ongoing basis. It speaks to the point made by Senators Duffy and Collins that we cannot put all these restrictions and regulation on people who are struggling to get by. The increase in the fuel allowance goes some way towards that but there is also the warmer homes scheme. I do not have the figure to hand but according to one of the figures I saw recently, about 150,000 homes have been upgraded free of charge to a B2 standard or higher. This is really aimed at targeting those most at threat of fuel poverty and taking the burden off them of using cheaper or poorer materials. Getting those who are least well-off into a sustainable position so that we remove the necessity to burn solid fuel by doing deeper retrofits is very much a plank of this Government and the previous one. I know the councils have a programme of upgrading their own council stock. All new builds are built to a much higher standard, which is appropriate.

There is a considerable amount of work to be done. The next figure I saw was of €8 billion to be spent over the next couple of years as part of the overall retrofit programme. The SEAI does good work through the one-stop-shop, etc., in identifying the schemes that are there, assisting people in upgrading their homes and encouraging people to commit a bit of capital where they can. There are some who are fortunate enough to have paid down their mortgages and are in a position to invest in their homes again. This is being encouraged with support. I know there are loans available from some financial institutions where the work done is green in nature. All the financial institutions are providing supports there. I do not offer this as a panacea because I am fairly conscious that many people are struggling to just pay their mortgages and feed and educate their children. That is a difficult cohort. We have to try to have as broad a series of measures that will meet the various different cohorts and encourage people to make that change.

I go back to what Senator O'Reilly said. There are significant carrots there rather than the big stick. The big stick here is about the rogue operators that are flouting the law as it stands or challenging the solid citizens who try to do their business appropriately. It is about trying to end that practice.

I thank all Members for their contributions and look forward to the next Stages of the Bill and working through the different elements of it. If any Member has any ideas, he or she should work with us and come forward with amendments. We will certainly give consideration to them. I may or may not be the person back here taking it on the next Stage. If I am, I may be rejecting some amendments but they will be thought through and worked through and we will try to see if there is anything further Members can add.