Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)

Specifically on waivers, the Senator is correct. If a person applied to the redress scheme, the waiver would apply there. Obviously, the same criteria have applied for those, be that through Caranua or for the supports we are now putting in place. The person could also apply for Caranua if he or she had gone through a legal process and received a payment or an element of a payment and there was not a waiver in that regard. While it might apply to some people, it does not apply to everybody.

Waivers tend to be part of redress schemes not just here in Ireland, but in many other jurisdictions. To change that would have to be a Government decision, in that it would be a decision taken in respect of any potential future schemes, but we cannot change what was in place for a scheme that was administered 20 years ago. With any scheme, I agree that we have to learn. I hope that we do not spend the next 20 or 30 years having to produce schemes. I hope we can do everything that we can, as soon as possible, for survivors regardless of whether they are included today or otherwise. I acknowledge the survivors with us in the Public Gallery.

Much of the information the Senators are referencing in amendments Nos. 6 or 8 - particularly the latter - is available through Caranua's report, which is prepared annually. Once this legislation is wound down and Caranua is dissolved, the Department of Education and Youth will have to produce a final report setting out much of the information that is in this. Some of it is already available and some of it is provided within Caranua's annual report.

The waiver applies as it did for the scheme. That will not change. It was 20-odd years ago. A decision would have to be taken on whether we introduced them or had them as part of any future scheme.

I believe that lessons are learned. For example, the educational supports that will be provided through this are different to the approach that would have been taken even in Caranua, where people had to provide receipts to show what they had purchased or what they were doing. That will not be the case here. We will not be seeking that from people. We always have to show that we are evolving and learning and that we are taking survivors' experience into account in terms of what has and has not worked, how we can make it easier and how we can lessen the stress of what survivors have to go through just to access these. I hope that is reflected in this.

To the question, I hope the Senator is happy. I do not think anybody could suggest that what we are providing here will in any way make amends or erase what has happened. This is just an acknowledgement of what survivors have gone through. What I am trying to do with this is make sure that survivors get access as quickly as possible and that we learn. Much of the information that has been mentioned is set out in Caranua's annual reports. The Department will have to produce a final report setting out much of what is in this. It will not include waivers because waivers were part of the previous scheme. That will not change; that is very much set out in that criteria. As regards anything we decide in the future, though, we have to be able to learn what has worked well and what has not.