Victor Boyhan (Independent)

At the core of this is redress and acknowledgement of a wrong.Earlier, I referred to the indemnity scheme of this State that was signed at Merrion Square, Dublin 2, on 5 June 2002 by the then Ministers for Finance and Education and Science, predecessors of the Minister present. I have in front of me copies of the signatures, the seals of office on the Government's legal advice and the commitments given. I am sure all this is still available on a website. It is interesting that many of the religious organisations are still in operation and offering care services and education services. I stated last week that it would be wholly wrong not to acknowledge the significant role of the religious in health services, social services and education in Irish society. A very high proportion, 99%, of them were excellent people. Somehow, they are washed out in the narrative of abuse in this State.

As a member of the Church of Ireland by birth, and still by choice, I also want to mention the religious of my denomination because they too have fallen short. Many will be aware of major scandals within the Church of Ireland and Protestant communities. We must not forget these because suddenly in the narrative on the religious, the focus seems to be on Irish Catholic and not Irish Protestant. I am not interested in what denomination people are, but we have to be fair. I join the Minister in saying that we need to call on the religious superiors and non-religious superiors regarding the schools, religious and non-religious, and institutions where abuse was perpetrated, be it at St. John Ambulance Brigade, within the Scout Association of Ireland or at Westbank, which I spoke about by way of a Commencement matter this morning. They will simply have to pay up. We owe it to ourselves. We entered into an indemnity scheme and it has not been altogether delivered upon. If the organisations do not have the money, they may have land. We have a housing crisis. Assets are valuable and potentially in great locations for homes. We have to be imaginative in determining how to get some support. The people would expect nothing less. I am aware that the Minister is absolutely committed to this.

When we discussed this Bill last week, I spoke about the great heroes: Mary Raftery of "States of Fear"; Christine Buckley from Goldenbridge; Michael O'Brien, a former mayor of Clonmel, who was passionate and who gave testimony on RTÉ; Philomena Lee, whom we talked about here today in referring to the legislation going through Westminster; Catherine Corless, who raised the matter of the Tuam babies, whom we think of this very day along with what is going on down in Tuam; Damian O’Farrell; Conrad Bryan from the Association of Mixed Irish Race, an advocate for equality and the many babies who were shipped out of this country illegally, about whom no one knows; and, of course, Colm O’Gorman of One in Four. I must also mention our own Samantha Long, a Leinster House employee who partook in the documentary "No Country for Women". These are brave people who put their lives in the public domain and spoke of their journey and lived experience. They are brave and courageous, and what they have done was not easy. Each of us has to go back to our homes and loved ones and be asked why we continue to be so much on fire about and advocates in this area. It is critical to people who have the lived experience, and it is important that we continue to stick with them.

I thank the Minister and her officials, because it is important that we all have a role to play. We all have a job to do, although we come from different perspectives. Following up not on the pursuit of additional money but on commitments made in an indemnity scheme of which we are all aware must be done. We have to pursue this in a respectable way. It might not be a matter of hard cash but it may be a matter of property or other assets that will help us to compensate the State, which has paid out very substantial amounts of money, which I acknowledge.

We should also consider those who escaped and kept their heads down. Too many kept their heads down. It was not about what we did but about what we did not do. That is really important, too. We talked earlier about another case coming down the tracks. I could state ten organisations whose cases are coming the Minister's way. These are in the education sector alone and that is not to talk about health.

Whatever processes we put in place now will be there for a long time. They have to be in place. We cannot put a value on justice, care, support and enabling people. We have to travel the journey with them and support them in every way we can.

I commend Senator Tully on what is a really important amendment. It is not about having a go at the religious. I would not support that. We must acknowledge the great support offered by the religious to Irish society through care and education. When I talk about victimhood and hurt, I could tell the House about many religious people I got to know who have been deeply hurt and traumatised by this experience. Many have asked why they did not put their heads up, why what happened occurred on their watch and in their congregations and why they were not empowered to do something about it. They, too, were trapped in a system and it is important that we acknowledge that. We must always be fair. We cannot argue with people who are fair. Let us not forget them. We should think of them. I bump into so many religious people at various opportunities and note they are deeply hurting and embarrassed and nearly afraid to talk about it. There is a veil of silence around them. I want to think of them also. Many of them are victims of a system that allowed the abuses to take place.