Victor Boyhan (Independent)

I thank the Civil Engagement Group and Senator Higgins for introducing this all-encompassing, clever amendment which covers everything we have talked about. It is about accountability and the Minister coming back within 12 months of the passing of the Bill. I hope the Minister does not say this is not possible. For some reason that I do not know, nothing is possible. That is really important because there is learning from this.

The Minister may be able to enlighten us in 12 months' time about the deed done on 5 June 2020 between the Minister for Finance and the Government in relation to the indemnity scheme. I have a copy of the indemnity scheme in my hand, signed and embossed by the legal agents of these religious organisations. The Minister will be familiar with it, or should be familiar with it because many of them are still running schools under her remit. I will circulate this again next Tuesday because we need to take this line by line. This was signed by Government and approved by the legal advisers to the Government. We need to deliver on it. After this 12-month period, when I have no doubt Deputy McEntee will still be the Minister for education, I hope she will be able to enlighten us on the progress she makes on that.

I ask the Minister to enlighten us on whether she agrees to this report. This is about accountability to the Houses of the Oireachtas, not about what the Minister and I think, and, ultimately, to the public. She would then be able to talk about how we have learned from our experiences with Sage Advocacy, which I fully endorse and recommend. We would also know more about the special advocate for victims of institutional abuse. That is really important.

The Minister might support the Labour Party's civil liability (child sexual abuse proceedings against unincorporated bodies of persons) Bill 2024. I hope she looks at it favourably. Published by the Labour Party last September, the Bill would provide a remedy to the Government. The Government says it needs remedies. Here is a remedy to address the legal obstruction tactics that have been deployed by some religious orders and other associates in lay-run trusts to avoid paying the financial contribution to a redress for those who have endured abuse in institutions controlled by them.

I know we are coming to the end of the debate. At the core of this is the requirement to provide accountability in real time. That is the difference. Accountability must be provided in real time and not generations later. Redress must be just, transparent and fair. Advocacy and practical supports must be fully resourced.Most of the contributors today have covered all of this. I think that 12 months on, the Minister will be a lot wiser. We will have feedback from the various people who have attempted to engage with the educational and health schemes. On this side of the House, we will also be in a better position to report progress on the experiences that have been relayed to us by people using the service. I think it is a fair and reasonable amendment and I hope the Minister will be in a position to accept it. I do not see why she should not, because it is ultimately about accountability and would indicate a commitment that she, like us, is open to learn and to travel this journey with other people and, if necessary, to amend this legislation or bring in new legislation. I finish on that. I ask the Minister to consider the Civil Liability (Child Sexual Abuse Proceedings Unincorporated Bodies of Persons) Bill. There is great potential in that to hold people accountable.