Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)

I welcome the Minister of State. As we see an increase in the digitalisation of services in banking and finance, it is important that the Government keeps pace with this with legislation and regulation. There is no doubt that digital banking reduces the carbon footprint of journeys necessarily made to bank branches to do business and it is convenient for those who are competent in using digital services or who have access to Wi-Fi, but this does not relate to everyone in the country. It is important that when progress is being made in digitalisation, which I very much welcome, it does not leave people behind, isolated and separated from the ability to use those services. A recent survey carried out by the Department showed that 37% of people visit bank branches at least once a month. I think this is more the case in rural areas. As a rural dweller myself, like others who have spoken, I recognise that particular reliance on access to cash. The impetus in all of this is that continued access to services and to cash should continue to be local and convenient. I note the targets in the Bill to that end.

Senator Byrne made the point that it should not be on the basis of unfair charges. Those become a penalty. This may not be the case for people who live in urban areas and those who have more access to digital services and the ability to carry them out. They have been grappling with the same issue north of the Border and I have some experience with it. It is a smaller geographic area but 95% of people there have free access to cash and to cash deposit and withdrawal services, within one mile in urban areas and three miles in rural areas. A number of pilot schemes have been carried out, some involving Bank of Ireland, to provide banking hubs in more rural areas. Such pilot schemes have been carried out in some of the smaller towns in County Down. This is something the Government and the Central Bank might consider in terms of collating those services and providing that for people.

Some certainty is required in the legislation regarding future services, to make sure that closures are mitigated or regulated against to make sure that banks, as they digitalise and reduce the number of staff and branches, still recognise the need for access to those services across the country. They are an important part of how we do business. It is not just about the right of access to cash and services; it is also about the right to use cash. We do not want to get to a situation where businesses begin to introduce card-only policies. Some of the problems related to continuing the digitalisation have been outlined by Senator Keogan and other speakers. The idea of a cashless society might be a tech dream but I do not think it is either necessary or wise. The dependency on the use of cash is more related to poverty than to age. We do not want to get to a situation where vulnerable people become even more vulnerable because of that dependency and their ability to use or access cash being interfered with in the context digital services.

While it is necessary to keep pace with changes in technology and digitalisation, it is very important to protect some of the fundamentals which other Senators have outlined in terms of ensuring there is fair access to cash. There should be an understanding that this will continue to be a requirement for many people. We should continue to protect those services. The banks and the financial institutions should understand the view of the elected representatives in this regard and should work with the Government and the Central Bank to ensure that this provision continues.