Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I just want to make that quite clear. From the Minister, Deputy Heydon, down to me and the other Ministers of State, we and this Government have no intention of reducing the national herd. We will promote agroforestry and make it a good use for people such that they can have cattle, sheep and a piece of land that is covered with agroforestry and get their premium for that as well. This Government is for farmers. We are for our national herd. We are supporting people who worked hard to build up a herd of cows and maybe a beef herd. This Government is supporting them in every strong, possible way.

Senator Brady described people being fearful of planting and the carbon credit issue, which I did not deal with. The carbon credits are very important. In my infinite wisdom many years ago, I automatically assumed that carbon credits were going to be a big thing of the future. I thought we would own them, could trade them and that they would be a valuable commodity. Unfortunately we have not got there yet. It is something we all aspire to. I believe that every farmer in the country, whether they have forestry or not, should be entitled to carbon credits. Many people would try to give the impression that farmers are doing some sort of damage to the countryside because they are farming it. Making a living producing food is a very necessary thing for all of us because otherwise we will all die of starvation. The issue of carbon credits is something I hope will be looked at in the future. The Senator's points are very well made. A few Senators have mentioned the price of timber. Even today, I had the pleasure of visiting a very extensive sawmill. I was very glad to call to this business, which has existed more 100 years or more. To see the employment and expertise, and to see what they are doing on the ground with our product, and the massive amount of money that they have invested, the confidence they have in the sector, makes me really feel that we have an obligation to ensure they will have timber in the future and will not have to go to Scotland. In Scotland, 17,000 ha a year is planted compared with the paltry amount of planting done here. Scotland recognises the value of timber and the contribution that timber makes to its economy.

I am very glad with the way sawmills here operate. I am not afraid that they will pull down the price. They know they are in this for the long haul. The providers of their produce are their farmers. If sawmills do anything to blot their copybook at this time and lose the confidence of farmers, it will be bad for them in the future. These people are not fly-by-nights. They are not people who set up a business but are gone in no time. That is not the way. They are in this for the long haul. In general, they are generational workers. They are families and, hopefully, their families in the future will run these sawmills so they will do the exact opposite and try to keep the prices up.

Senators Collins, Tully and Higgins mentioned peatlands. This is where honesty is the best policy. I am not going to come in here and let on that I agree with somebody who says something that I do not agree with. I just do not operate that way. I am sorry and I do not mean to be rude or anything like that but if their policy with regard to peat was taken to its logical conclusion, in Ireland today, whatever amount of forestry we have, we would have about 80% less. If the policies that the Senators would like to see were there at that time, we would have a crazy situation. If the rules that are applied even today were applied before, we would not have any forestry or timber. That would affect the sawmills that give valuable employment and the construction industry were we want the timber. We would still need timber in Ireland but from where would we get it? We would have to import timber and that does not make sense.

Whether we like it or not, to get timber you have to stick a tree in the ground and it has to grow. If we are going to continually restrict where we go, and we are on 30 cm, and if we are going to be married to 30 cm in the future, then, quite simply, we will not have enough timber and will have to import it from Scotland and do nonsensical stupid things like that. I do not want that to happen. If we are talking about protecting the environment, is it not a lot better to have our own produce here in Ireland? That is why I and my officials in the Department will look at planting more peatland. Farmers want to plant peatland. Farmers do not want to plant their green ground because they have worked so hard to get the bit they have. They broke their backs and bones to make the land green and they do not want to plant trees on it but instead use it for grazing. We want to use green ground for grazing but plant trees on rough ground and peaty ground. I am afraid that this is just one of these things on which we cannot always agree. Am I out of time?