Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

My colleague will probably be called immediately thereafter.

I concur with the latter remarks of Senator McDowell. It must be almost a respite for the Minister of State to get into this House for a while. I welcome him. Not only does he have family in my area who are particularly good friends of mine, but I also served on the Council of Europe, where he served with great distinction and made a big impact for a number of years. For that reason it is a particular personal pleasure to welcome him to the House and indeed, as my colleague did earlier, welcome this legislation.

As the Minister of State stated at the outset, the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman, or ombudsperson, to be politically correct, is an office that is very widely used. It dealt with in the region of 6,000 complaints, with 5,000 resolutions in 2023. It is an important office and is an important bulwark for the public and a reassurance for people. It is important that we amend the legislation to take it into a good, modern and more holistic space so it can deal with more issues. We are doing that here. The amendments in the legislation outlined by the Minister of State are important. The introduction of cross-examination is particularly important, as indeed, as Senator McDowell correctly stated, is the criminalising of deliberate, fraudulent submissions under oath. That is important for the efficacy of the entire exercise and process for getting good outcomes. The cross-examination dimension is an important amendment. The decision as to whether an oral hearing should take place is important and in some instances that will be appropriate. Equally, section 17, which states that mediation will be in private, is important. A lot of consumers would not be happy to go into a public space and would not want to think they were in a mediation process that had any public dimension. It is important that it be voluntary to enter into it and that it is possible that within that space, to use a modern cliché, a confidential solution to problem can be designed and agreed. It is important that this can be done and that there is a mutuality and an agreement possible. Ultimately, it is all about being a watchdog but also being solution-focused. These are amendments to the 2017 principal Act.

The definition of "financial services provider" is being widened and will include institutions that have left the jurisdiction in order that all mortgage holders will be protected.

I will make a number of general observations that I would like the Minister of State to bear in mind and speak to in his reply. Some of them are not totally germane to this legislation but it is Second Stage and they are, in a sense, connected. In many respects, they are very relevant to the entire exercise today.

The first is something the Minister of Sate might relate to because of where he represents but is something people find very strange in an urban environment or a cosmopolitan setting like this. A lot of people have a difficulty with the entire move to contactless payment. A lot of older people, but not necessarily all older people, have a difficulty with everything being contactless. For example, there are beautiful gardens and a lovely public space in the grounds of Royal Hospital Kilmainham. The car parking service is gone to a private provider, not inappropriately and I understand why that might happen but people can only access the carpark via contactless payment. Many car parks around Dublin can only be accessed by contactless payment. There was dispute around going into various sports matches over a similar issue, which has been resolved. Contactless payment is not appropriate for everyone. Financial institutions will lobby the Minister of State intensely for contactless payment, as it reduces a lot of difficulty for them relating to security and staffing issues. While that may be so, the Minister of State is the people's representative in this and I appeal to him to ensure that while cash may not be king anymore, we do not lose the use of cash for those who have a difficulty with anything else. That might seem simple and almost absurd to some people. I could bring them to meet people for whom this is a real issue. For that reason I would appreciate a response from the Minister of State. I invite him to come and meet people and I will spend a Friday taking him around meeting people for whom this is a day-to-day issue.

Another difficulty for a very different cohort of people is the issue of debanking. It is a minority issue. There are a number of people who are having banking services removed from them on fairly arbitrary considerations. It could be that they have extreme politics of one type or another. It could be because they allegedly had difficulties in the past but whatever the reasons, people are being refused financial services on arbitrary grounds. The posh term for this, I gather, is debanking.Whatever terminology you might use, it is a horrible reality for the victims. In such circumstances, I would like to think we might do something about that too and make that a much more transparent process, with reasoning, notice and justification for it given.

The finances of vulnerable people, including those who have a bad credit history and so on, is a big area. They are prey to various things that could be pernicious, with terrible small print. I have great confidence in the Minister of State. I am not acting the fool; I really mean that. I have worked alongside him and I know how good he is at doing stuff. I would like him to look at this area of vulnerable people and products targeted at them in circumstances in which they can be victims and can be exploited. This can happen on the Internet. In that context, Internet scammers are using vulnerable people who apply for loans. They search for cheap finance, special finance or whatever. Scammers come to them and say that if those people give them their details, the scammers will process their loan applications, with a small fee of just a few euro, then they deny the poor people of the few bob they already had.

We are on Second Stage. I addressed the legislation earlier. I know it is not specific to the legislation, but these are real issues for real people. We do not often have the opportunity to raise them.

All in all, the legislation is good. Anything that modernises, strengthens and improves the process relating to the financial ombudsman or ombudsperson is important. I would like the Minister of State to explain where the role of the credit ombudsperson kicks in and where the overlap in duties lies. That is a little confusing. The Minister of State might speak to that if he does not mind.

I agree with Senator McDowell, who has such professional competence and experience here, when he says that we should not have delays from these tribunals. I ask the Minister of State to see if timings are good and if there can be speedy solutions. The Senator is right about the Private Residential Tenancies Board. I have been trying to process a case for somebody recently. It seems to be taking a very long time. Considering the requirements of people who are trying to register their properties with the board, to be good and to do the right thing, you would think they were seeking international passports. The process involved is quite comprehensive. If people are willing to register their properties and comply, I would have thought they should be welcomed with open arms - hallelujah - and not have a whole set of obstacles and delays put in front of them.