Gerard Craughwell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I wish to deal with all of the amendments together, if I may, given the time we have. Section 323(1)(c) provides that the Secretary General of the Department of Defence shall be an ex officio member of the external oversight body. Section 323(7) states, "The person appointed (or designated under subsection (6)) as chairperson of the External Oversight Body shall not have served [in] the Defence Forces [or any other defence force]". I find both of those things repugnant to the external oversight body. First, let us deal with the Secretary General of the Department. During the debate at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence, the chairman of the external oversight body admitted that there was a possibility that from time to time the Secretary General would have to recuse herself from a meeting because there would be a conflict of interest. It is important - we are talking about an external oversight body that is to change the culture of the Defence Forces. We hear lots of background noises about resistance, etc. When the report comes from that external oversight body to the Minister and is laid before this House, I want everybody inside or outside this House, including members of the Defence Forces, to have confidence that the external oversight body was not just said to be independent, but was seen to be independent. Being seen to be independent is important. The Secretary General has had a role in drafting the terms of reference for the external oversight body. The Secretary General is the employer of the external oversight body for the Department and the report will go to the Secretary General and the Minister when it is complete. It is wrong in every way for the Secretary General to be an ex officio member of the oversight body. I argue that if she has to be a member, the representative bodies also have to be members. I would prefer that the representative bodies were also excluded from the external oversight body. I want that body to be 100% beyond question with respect to its independence.

If I may be so bold as to say, if there was a problem in Fianna Fáil in the morning, for example, allegations of bullying or something like that, and the party wanted somebody to come in and examine the problem, it would not want any member of the party or party staff to be involved in the oversight or examination. One would want it to be independent. The Tánaiste knows exactly where I am coming from. I was not here for the Second Stage debate, unfortunately, as I was in Tallinn with a group on cybersecurity, but I watched the debate. Irrespective of party, every Member of this House who spoke said it would be wrong for the Secretary General to be a member of that body. In the Oireachtas joint committee and in the Dáil, everybody said the same thing. Surely to God, at this stage the penny should have dropped. The external oversight body should be independent. It has an excellent chair and the members who have been chosen are excellent. There is one bogey in the pile and it must be removed. I will leave it at that because I am sure other Members wish to speak.