Mark Wall (Labour) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State. I welcome opportunity to speak on this very important Bill. I also want to welcome our good friend, Mr. Mark Bradshaw, to the Public Gallery. The Minister of State will be familiar with Mr. Bradshaw's advocacy in respect of gambling addiction over many years. I thank him for his continued support for those who are dealing with gambling addiction.

As I have done previously in this House, I will begin by commending the Minister of State on his work and on that of his Department in respect of this important Bill. This is very important legislation in the context of public health and for a growing number of people. The establishment of a gambling regulator is long overdue. I take this opportunity to wish the CEO designate of the Gambling Regulatory Authority of Ireland, Ms Anne-Marie Caulfield, the very best in her role.

The Minister of State and other colleagues referred earlier to the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, report compiled by the Gambling Regulatory Authority of Ireland. One of the authority's first tasks was to conduct research to grasp the extent of the problem with gambling in Ireland. As the Minister of State said, the results of these studies were stark for a large number of people. However, they did not surprise many of us in this House who have been raising gambling-related issues over the past four years. The figures basically state, as the Minister of State outlined, that one in 30 people or approximately 130,000 problem gamblers exist in Ireland. They are the reason that we need legislation. Other research we have all read tells us that problem gamblers have an impact on a further six people in their lives, be it family or friends.

Previously, I have read into the record testimonies from individuals whose lives have been destroyed by gambling. Since those debates, I have spoken to many more people who have lost family relationships, homes and jobs simply because of their addiction. Of course, the vast majority of people can gamble without developing an addiction. We in the Labour Party are not against gambling, as we have said previously. Many people gamble within their means and that is important to say, as I have done in this Chamber in previous debates. However, we must protect children and the most vulnerable from addiction. As already stated, that is why the legislation is needed. We currently depend in the main on legislation from the 1950s, when Ireland was a very different place.

For too long, the gambling and marketing companies have normalised gambling in sport, portraying sporting occasions as reasons to gamble rather than to enjoy the skill, atmosphere or occasion of those occasions. They have created these social occasions where young people gamble together and everybody heads home from the pub or the sporting event very happy. Of course, the reality for a growing percentage of our population is far from this expertly created marketing advertisement. One in 30 people gamble alone. A growing number do so on their phones and without the knowledge and support of their loved ones. Indeed, the only time the latter find out about their secret addiction is when the mortgage company writes to say that the mortgage remains unpaid, the bank statement arrives indicating that the holiday savings are gone, as a result of a someone's partner having a complete health breakdown or, in some cases, even the unthinkable happening.

The Minister of State will be aware that I brought legislation to ban gambling advertisements from our televisions, media and social media before this House on behalf of the Labour Party. As I said, the expert marketing companies employed by the gambling companies have created this normalisation of gambling in sport. It was mostly during the Covid period that my office - I am sure it was the same for the Minister of State - was contacted by concerned parents having to explain to their young children, some as young as six, what the gambling advertisement was about. That is completely wrong in every way.

We have pushed for Ireland to join fellow EU countries like Belgium and the Netherlands in banning gambling advertising 24-7. I welcome the fact that this Bill proposes a ban from 5.30 p.m. to 9 p.m., but the problem I have with that is that 9 p.m. is the time when most parents settle in to enjoy some downtime after getting the children ready for bed and when they may go on social media or watch TV. I am informed that this is prime time for many of those with an addiction, and I understand why. I cannot understand why we cannot look at a 24-hour ban. We believe this will give the regulator a chance to look at the market, carry out some badly needed research on gambling advertisements and then decide the best way forward.Perhaps the Minister of State would consider a 24-hour ban.

I have been following the debates at the justice committee and particularly in the Dáil over the recent Stages of this Bill. I noted the Minister of State's response to Deputies on banning credit card betting. I acknowledge that a number of gambling companies have already instigated this measure with their own companies. Perhaps the Minister of State would reassure us once again in the Seanad that this Bill will ban credit card betting. I acknowledge the fact he has already stated that today. It is one thing to bet with whatever money you have and, it is hoped, whatever money you can afford to lose, but it is an entirely different ball game when you are betting with somebody else's money, money you do not even have.

I also welcome the amendments the Minister of State proposed to bring forward on exemptions for charities and sports clubs from advertising much-needed fundraisers. I know he will also give us some clarity in regard to bingo, as other Members have raised in the debate. I look forward to seeing and debating those amendments as we proceed.

An area I want to raise with the Minister of State is the issue of inducements of free bets which, I am aware, was reintroduced by amendments in the Dáil. I and many of the people I have spoken to have serious concerns about inducements. Many gambling companies and gambling addicts will tell of their experience of being contacted by betting firms offering free bets, loyalty cards and trips to sporting events because they are regarded as regular and good customers. They will tell you it is very hard to resist this type of temptation because, like the credit card, it is not their money. They will not have to lie to a loved one and they will get the same rush from accepting them.

I note the amendment being reintroduced cannot target individuals. Who controls that? Why is the Government introducing these inducements? Will there be an age limit on offering free bets to those of a certain age who, it can be argued, will see this as opening a door to gambling, a door where they do not have to use their own money in the first instance? This is a serious concern. I know the Minister of State has considered this over a period of time but I would like him to come back to it tonight. I, for one, and, I hope, colleagues here would ask him to look at the whole area of inducements and free bets. For me it is an issue for people on this gambling legislation. Who will protect the addict or person developing an addiction from switching from one free bet to another or from opening an account with another gambling company? Will we be relying on the gambling companies to police these inducements?

I note in one response the Minister of State indicated that the gambling regulator would patrol what can and could be offered by the companies involved. Has the Minister of State an indication from the regulator at this stage of what way she is thinking? We have concerns that putting back in inducements and free bets will dilute this Bill and its effectiveness. We feel much of the good work on protecting the young and most vulnerable through this Bill will be undone by this amendment. Will the Minister of State comment on the concerns I have just raised? As I said, it is a major concern for many people who have followed the progress of this Bill and who want to see it introduced.

There are other aspects of the Bill I want to comment on in the time remaining. I welcome the setting up of the Gambling Regulatory Authority of Ireland. I followed the discussion in the Dáil and I support the inclusion on the authority of a person with the lived experience of a gambling addiction. While I take on board the response from the Minister of State to the suggestion in the Dáil, I feel a person will only benefit the board in its early inception.

On the social impact fund, the Minister of State might clarify whether there is a time transfer from the current model, in the main operated by the companies themselves, to the new model or will the new social impact fund immediately take over this role? One of the impacts I would like to see from this fund is a national educational piece, through our secondary schools, on gambling and related harm. A number of organisations already provide this and give talks at the moment. The regulator mentioned the area of education, which I believe is vital. I would welcome the Minister of State's thoughts on this. We need to educate young people on the harms of gambling. The social impact fund needs to be used for these purposes. Those in this field at the moment are doing tremendous work. I commend them tonight. I have been to some of the talks and listened to some of the schools on the benefit of those talks. That is the way forward.

I would also like to know the Minister of State's thoughts on those on the front line, whom he mentioned, who are dealing with gambling addiction. They need to be properly funded for those services to be available for those in need to avail of them. I am aware, and no doubt the Minister of State is also, of the great work many of these organisations carry out daily.They need further assistance because they need to be there when the potentially 130,000 people in this country need somebody to turn to. They need to be funded, to be available 24-7 and to be there, as I said, at all times.

I also want to talk, as a colleague did, about the gambling self-exclusion register. I have concerns about how this may work and who will police it. Is the Minister of State's thinking that the companies themselves will police it, or will the gambling regulator oversee or control the gambling self-exclusion register? It is an important part of this legislation. When talking to those with a gambling addiction, this is the one thing they all push for in order that they can self-exclude themselves from gambling addiction. They welcome this part of the Bill but there are concerns about how it will operate.

I hope to table amendments on a number of items I have raised. I thank the Minister of State for his assistance on this Bill and for the conversations I have had with him about it. I believe this is an important Bill coming through this House. It is important for all those whose testimonies I have raised in this House on previous occasions, along with colleagues who have continually raised the issues of gambling harm. There are 130,000 people in this country who may sign up to indicate they have gambling harm at the moment. Through this Bill, we need to protect the most vulnerable. We need to protect children. I welcome the Bill. I would also welcome the Minister of State's response about 24-7 gambling. The issue I find most worrying in this Bill is free bets and inducements. I believe it will be exploited and has been exploited in the past. It is an area of significant concern for those with gambling addictions.