Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 57:

In page 14, to delete lines 33 to 35, and in page 15, to delete lines 1 and 2.

The amendment seeks the deletion of section 15 (2)(b) (iii), which currently provides that the board "satisfy itself that appropriate systems, procedures and practices are in place ... in order to enable compliance with the policies (whether contained in guidelines, codes or other documents, or any combination of them) of the Government or a Minister of the Government to the extent that those policies may affect or relate to the functions of the Agency,".

Amendment No. 58 is an alternative to amendment No. 57, which would delete the phrase "(whether contained in guidelines, codes or other documents, or any combination of them)”.

Amendment No. 59 is an alternative to amendment Nos. 57 and 58, seeks to "delete “(whether contained in guidelines, codes or other documents, or any combination of them)” and substitute “(which are provided for by legislation or statutory instrument)”.

Amendment No. 60 seeks to amend that section by deleting the provision for a requirement of the board to satisfy itself that appropriate systems, procedures and practices are in place in order to enable compliance with certain policies, would be limited to the policies of the Minister rather than "a Minister of the Government”.

Effectively, at the moment this section provides that the board must set out and be ready with systems, procedures and practices in place to comply with any policy of any Minister to the extent that it relates to their functions of an agency. We know from the previous sections that this is effectively construed as meaning anything they might do. It goes to the same concern that there is no clarity around what kinds of things they are being asked to comply with. Maybe it is a health and safety code, for example, and that is fine because we could specify things like health and safety codes. At the moment, however, it is simply any policy of any Minister of the Government. The language in this section such as "whether contained in guidelines, codes or other documents, or any combination of them" means that one could have a memo, a Post-it or a one-page document dreamed up by any Minister and the agency is meant to be ready and standing by with procedures in place to comply with that - not to consider, engage with, or have regard to rather comply with. These are not simply guidelines or health and safety code guidelines. This refers to any document of any Minister of a Government. This is wild overreach. There may well be clear purposes that are needed and there may be clear function cases and this is why I have tabled amendment No. 59 which seeks to make it clearer. It is absolutely appropriate if it is about legislation, for example around health and safety, or proper accounting practices, or even those statutory instruments that get implemented around new directives with which we must comply and get translated into statutory instruments. If there is a legal basis for something then it is absolutely appropriate that the agency would be ready to comply with any statutory instrument or any new piece of legislation, and which may come from other Departments that are not the Department of Education. They may come from Department of Health, from the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, or the Department of Justice, for example. If we are looking at such wide powers the language of "guidelines, codes or other documents, or any combination of them" is super wide. It is too wide. We need clarity around what exactly this is intended to do and what exactly is the remit. We need some kind of limitation so it is clear that it is not simply any policy document that is dreamed up, not simply any memo from Government or any memo from a Minister, or any new decision that any Minister makes. Perhaps the Minister of State, Deputy Collins will clarify this. I have suggested one approach, which is that the Government makes it clear where it is policy for something that is provided for by legislation or statutory instrument.