Róisín Garvey (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

It would have been great to have the Minister for housing in, but I am sure he is very busy. This relates to upstairs living. I ask the Minister what has been done to achieve the programme for Government commitment to ensure underused building stock in small and large urban centres is brought into use. Specifically, what progress has been made under the Town Centre First policy commitments to bring about the living above the shop measures?

When we were forming this Government I was involved in the programme for Government negotiations around rural development. One of the specific wins we, in the Green Party, got was the Government commitment to getting people back living in our towns and villages and specifically keeping the shops alive downstairs while having people living upstairs. Some three and a half years in, we have not done that. We said we would need to look at the fire safety regulations because they are the prohibitive factor cost-wise and they are designed around new builds rather than older, heritage buildings, as the Minister of State knows. I ask the Minister what we have done. We do not have specific data on upstairs living potential. All the upstairs space between the canals in Dublin could accommodate 4,000 apartments. The CSO does not ask the question, which is a pity as we do not have the clear data. All a person needs to do is to go through any town, village or city and look upstairs to see blocked-out windows and nobody living there.

This is something we got in the programme for Government. The Green Party fought for this. I remember being in the room and fighting for the wording, so it would be very specific, namely, Live Above the Shop measures. Despite this, we do not see anything happening around making the regulations any better. Not only that but the joint Oireachtas committee on housing worked on that and its Chair, our colleague, Deputy Matthews, brought forward recommendations in May 2022. That report stated that "the value of 'living over the shop' is ... also about the effect it has on town centres".It also brings people back. It is not just about creating homes, which is the number one challenge we have in Ireland, but it also brings vibrancy and life back into the towns.

We are not dealing with it properly. We are not looking at it from a perspective of how derelict housing officers are just looking at whole housing being derelict. They are not looking at dereliction upstairs.

I know anecdotally from friends of mine who have tried to do up old buildings that it costs them an arm and a leg to get all the regulations done and if they want to have two uses, they have to do it all twice. I see people who thought they might be able to live upstairs and have a shop downstairs have given up and are now converting the downstairs into a home. It is deeply concerning because in a housing crisis where there already is built structure, the carbon footprint, costs and all that is much lower if an existing building can be done up that has services, is in a town and people do not have to drive there. We all think the one-off housing thing is putting pressure on the landscape but if we are not giving people an alternative, what choice do they have but to build one-off houses all around Ireland? I cannot blame them for wanting to do that if we do not give them other choices.

There were many good recommendations. They suggested a single national platform to be created to integrate, compile and effectively organise existing and future data on vacancy and dereliction and basically a one-stop shop to get certificates. The amount of money charged for certification is insane and it has to stop.

We did great on the Croí Cónaithe fund and that is brilliant. It was a big green win for us. Some 240 people in Clare have got it, which is fantastic. However, if they take an old building in a town or village, they can only live in it; they cannot have a shop. We want retail in our small towns and villages. We are not all driving to cities all the time. It is a no-brainer.

Last, in respect of our derelict housing officers, the numbers do not reflect the amount that actually are there. I urge people to contact their local derelict housing officer to tell them about derelict houses they find. There is a form, which is embedded deeply and very hard to find, on council websites. It is called a complaints form, which it should not be. One can fill it out and let the derelict housing officer know where these empty buildings are, of which there are thousands everywhere. There are 43 in my parish alone.

What is happening? We got it in the programme for Government. Three and a half years later, what have we done to get people living upstairs again?