Barry Ward (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I also extend welcome to the ambassadors of Lithuania and Ukraine. Throughout the entirety of her tenure here, H.E. Larysa Gerasko has been dealing with this situation. It is awful and difficult to understand.

In that regard, I will start with the Minister of State’s concluding remarks. The illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia reverberates across the world. There is no country in the reasonable world, if I can put it that way, that can ignore what is happening. The disrespect and disregard for the rule of law that has been shown by Russia compromises the security of every nation in the world and certainly those of us in Europe.

It is difficult to believe that on Saturday we will mark two years since the invasion took place. It is difficult to believe there has been an ongoing pitched battle throughout that time, but it is easy to understand how it has moved off the agenda in many respects, and the news agenda in particular. One of the things that Ukrainian friends here in Ireland and colleagues in Ukraine consistently say to me – today I have been in contact with some of our colleagues who are MPs in Ukraine in the Verkhovna Rada – is that they do not want us to forget what is happening. They do not want to slip from sight. They do not want the news agenda to move on from what continues to happen because it is no less awful today than it was two years ago. The injuries to children, civilians and ordinary people in Ukraine are no less severe and no less horrific today than they were two years ago. Let us remember, continue to talk about and continue to be active opponents of what is happening in Ukraine because of the imperial and illegal actions of Russia, in no uncertain terms.

I welcome what the Minister of State said. I am proud of the response of this country - not just this Government, but communities throughout Ireland. They have accommodated Ukrainians who have come here, welcomed them into their communities and benefited from the additions that Ukrainians have been. In my own community in Dún Laoghaire, we have an active Ukrainian community who do not just live among us and have become our friends but contributed in many ways through their work, skills and companionship. We are lucky to have them. I hope we will continue to provide shelter and asylum for them for as long as they need it. Speaking to them locally, most of the people who have come here since the beginning of the conflict want to go home. The reality is the people who have come here have constituted a brain drain for Ukraine and it is difficult for Ukraine to continue to operate when so many of its key citizens, skilled citizens and people with resources and capacity have had to move away. It is an incredibly difficult situation for those in Ukraine both from the point of view of fighting but also from the point of view of looking towards rebuilding when that time comes.

This morning, I heard the unfortunate statistic that most people do not see Ukraine winning, or at least do not see Russia losing, in this conflict. I visited Ukraine shortly after the outbreak of hostilities in 2022 with Senator Garret Ahearn. We travelled to Kyiv and witnessed the destruction in places such as Bucha and other places immediately adjacent to Kyiv and just how horrific that was. I had been to Ukraine on a number of occasions before hostilities broke out. When I went there, I did not see how Ukraine could ever stand up to the might of the Russian army and the extraordinary military might that is Russia. However, when you stand in Kyiv with Ukrainian people and when you talk to their soldiers, politicians and public representatives, there is a steeliness that none of us anticipated and, clearly, Vladimir Putin did not anticipate either. When I was there, I was convinced they have a capacity. I do not know what winning means, but they have a capacity the repel the Russian invasion, which is why I resist the calls from some quarters that there should be a ceasefire or some sort of a truce between the two countries. That sounds good on paper or just as a bald statement but the reality is that a truce means the Russian position is consolidated. Russia still occupies key parts of Ukrainian territory and, therefore, having a truce means that Russia holds what it has.

Let us remember that while we mark two years this week of the invasion specifically that was so bloody and appalling, this war has been going on since 2014. Russia first invaded and annexed Crimea in 2014. For Ukrainian people, the borders of Ukraine go right through Yalta and Sevastopol and into Crimea, and that territory is now occupied by Russians. The major problems Ukraine faces in resolving that is that land and portion of Ukraine has now been occupied, planted, colonised – whatever word one wants to use – by Russian people. To get that back, those people will have to be displaced, which creates a whole other legal problem for Ukraine.

Leaving that to one side, there is a more violent invasion in the past two years that has encroached on the eastern borders of Ukraine, and that needs to be resolved. That is where the international community needs to show its unfaltering resolve to President Zelenskyy, the members of the Verkhovna Rada, the politicians in Ukraine, the soldiers in Ukraine and the people of Ukraine that we are behind them. The alternative is unpalatable.

If we stand back and say that this is okay, there are any number of examples in history where dictators, autocrats and imperialists similar to Vladimir Putin have been appeased and allowed to get away with a lot, and it is impossible to row it back once that has been done. We must agree that what Russia has done is of course illegal and awful but that it also must be undone. We cannot stand back and say, "Let us draw a line under it here". That cannot be allowed to happen. If it is allowed to happen here, where else will it be allowed to happen? God knows there has been much conflict in recent years in the world. Before Ukraine, there was Syria, and that is still going on. Since Ukraine, there has been what is happening in Gaza. These are only just two examples close to us in Europe. Throughout the world, conflicts of a similar nature are occurring.

As members of the international community, we have an obligation to stand up to that and say that it is unacceptable, we will not tolerate it, we will never encourage it and we will never facilitate it. We are a militarily non-aligned country but we have had conversations in this Chamber on a number of occasions about how we are not neutral, notwithstanding being militarily non-aligned. I have always supported the policy we have of not getting involved in foreign wars. I do not want us involved and I do not want Irish members of the Defence Forces serving over there or fighting; that is not what it is about.

We have a diplomatic might. We have a credibility on the international stage that we can use as leverage against the likes of Russia and all the other global actors that seek to throw out the rule of law and disregard the norms of humanitarian law throughout the world.We have that power. Recently we were members, albeit temporary ones, of the UN Security Council. We have a good reputation with other members of the United Nations. We have a stellar reputation as peacekeepers in the United Nations. As a country, we can be honest brokers in this situation and we are not neutral on the question of Ukraine. I do not believe anyone in this House thinks we are neutral on the question of Ukraine. It does not mean we have to get militarily involved, but it does mean we have an obligation as a country, as a member of the community of nations, to say we will not accept what has happened or a consolidation of what has happened and that there can be no truce that allows Russia to hold a position where it occupies large portions of legal Ukrainian territory. That cannot be allowed to happen. We must reject the narratives from Russia, the disinformation about what is happening and the claim of denazification that is entirely without basis.

Ukraine, no more than any country, is not perfect. It has its problems, has had its problems and will have its problems in the future, quite apart from this and the rebuilding it will have to do. None of us is perfect but no country deserves to be occupied, attacked and invaded the way Ukraine has been. It is important we put down that marker clearly. A young student is on work experience with me this week, Caolán Tokar. His family came from Ukraine many generations ago. We discussed this. This reverberates through the generations. Everyone who knows someone from Ukraine - everyone in this country now does - understands just how visceral this is. I appreciate the Minister of State's words today but we have a clear obligation to stand up to bullies, imperialism and those who disregard the rule of law, whether it be Russia or any other country. I believe this Government will do so. We must, because the alternative is totally unpalatable.