Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for setting out her responses to the grouping of amendments. It is clear she is not accepting any of them. It looks like she will not be accepting any amendments other than those she has tabled. Does she call that democracy? Maybe she does. It is lovely to see her smiling. At the end of the day, it is her prerogative. I have always respected that. However, we put forward a strong and robust case based on what we have been asked to do by the representative bodies. I will not get into argy-bargy with individual Senators. I am setting out my stall as I believe it and based the facts that have been presented to me, as well as the emails and memos and with reference to several meetings and the correspondence I received today from the AILG. I am satisfied regarding where people stand on the issue. We do not win everything or get everything our own way

However, everything in this regard seems to come back to the magic wand of the Minister's regulations. She clarified that there is no guarantee in respect of a councillor being the chair. Despite what people are saying, there is no guarantee. The Minister has told us councillors can apply. In fact, anyone can apply to be chair of this committee. It is helpful to know that and there is no misunderstanding. The Minister has told us there is no guarantee. She is not making provision for that. She does not even recommend it. That is to be admired. She has set out her stall without any ambiguity. Her position is that she will come up with a series of regulations. In the context of any legislation, there is nothing preventing her, as Minister, from putting particular issues she considers important into primary legislation.This is the magic thing about regulations. While there are regulations, the Minister can put key objectives into legislation if she or her advisers so wish. She has taken a particular view. I want to leave today knowing what has been agreed.

I did not have a meeting with the Minister, by the way. I engaged with her but I certainly did not have a meeting with her. I have always found her to be exceptionally accessible and engaging, and if I want to contact her I know how to do so. I want to acknowledge that. There was no meeting with our group as such. Of course, each party is entitled to do its own thing. I take on board Senator Cassells's point about active advocacy and I fully understand that individual Senators from individual political parties and none will bat hard from their perspective. I respect that and have no difficulty with it whatsoever.

The Minister will not accept amendment No. 75 in my name. I flag to those who are around the House that I will be calling votes on it and amendment No. 82. These are really important amendments but the matter is one for the Members to decide. We have very little on the record here as regards voting patterns or support for these amendments. They are key amendments that I did not draw up. I am facilitating in this matter on behalf of individuals and advocates.

I thank the Minister for explaining her position. Most of the issues related to section 114 and city and county councillors are now clear. She can correct me if I am wrong but I understand the Minister envisages or plans to go away, scheme up some suggestions taking on board everything that has been said, put it all into the mix and come back with regulations. I ask her to commit to engage with the AILG and LAMA. That is a simple commitment to give. I am just asking her to engage. The organisations have no veto over it. In fairness, I think the Minister would engage with them and their representative bodies. I ask that she continue to engage with Members. I look forward to the publication of the regulations.

I am almost finished moving most of my amendments. I will be hear until the end for any votes. I presume the final vote on the legislation will take place by the end of the day if we reach all the amendments, as may very well be the case. If not, the Government's wish, supported by some Senators, is to guillotine the Bill. That is disappointing but it is a decision not of the Minister's making and it is not her fault. Therefore, I will not ask her to comment on it. I thank her for the time she has given us and the courtesy she has shown us. That is my position on those two particular amendments.