Seán Kyne (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I also support the motion. As a former member of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, I was aware of the forum on family friendly and inclusive parliaments and the suggestion that a second Dáil Chamber would be an addition that could also be used as committee space. People have different views on that. From time to time, we could do with additional spaces such as committee space. As a member of the Joint Committee on Health, if you wanted to bring in a Minister in the morning on something urgent, it might have been the case that there would be no spaces until Thursday evening, which may not have suited. I agree with the suggestion that there is a need for additional space. That would possibly make sense and there was a suggestion from this forum. However, the question is where that space should be located and there was no agreement on any proposals regarding the reading room. We all saw the previous Seanad Chamber. I am aware efforts were made by the previous commission to see if that space could be retained for an extra committee room, for functions, or even as a second Dáil Chamber. That would be a preferable option but would be something that would have to be agreed between the museum and the commission itself. It would be preferable. The Oireachtas Library was, and still is, a fine room. The structure and facade is still there but the changes that have been made have removed the furniture and fittings that added so much and made the room as it was. I will not pretend I was a huge user of the facility. Perhaps that is part of the reason behind this. Again, other Members will have to speak for themselves. Perhaps it was not being used sufficiently. That is not to say it would not have been used in the future, that it should not be retained, or that a decision was made to change the structure or remove the furniture. Regarding some of the rationale or reasons given, including as is stated on page 6 of the report presented to the commission, that general longer sitting times might have a discouraging effect on persons who would otherwise consider a career in politics. I doubt it. Social media may have more of an impact on people considering a career in politics, as would the abuse a politician might get, public meetings, and the different things people might have as a reason for not entering politics. Most people accept that politics, certainly for those in, or wishing to get into the Dáil, is not a nine-to-five job. Whoever goes into politics thinking it is a nine-to-five job, be it in the council or the Dáil, will get a rude awakening. The long hours people may have will not happen every week and there are summer recesses and things like that so I do not see this as being a rationale for removing a reading room or for requiring additional chambers. Late nights from time to time also add to the politics. It adds something nice to politics or its theatre, which perhaps only practising politicians will appreciate. Sometimes, there is nothing wrong with that. I do not see why we should be saying we should be finishing at 6 o'clock and resuming the next day. Those rural Deputies and Senators, who come up to Dublin on a Tuesday and stay on a Tuesday or Wednesday night, do not go home bar an emergency. Those Members are here anyway and late nights are not an issue for them. They would have issues with votable business or late sittings on a Thursday but I do not think it would be a deterrent to those who are up here anyway. I just do not buy that.

Regarding speaking time, and as a former Whip in the Dáil, the biggest issue at the moment is trying to find people to speak on Second State on certain Bills. Perhaps this is because politics has come down to the soundbite, the posts on TikTok, and small short posts on Instagram. Talking to more established or long-serving politicians, they would agree that the Second Stage debates, the amount of time spent on those and the number of speakers, is less than it was in the past. There has to be a reason behind the fact that there is not the level of speaking as there might have been in the past. Again, I do not agree that this is an issue. Very few people suggested to me that they could not get in for a debate on Second Stage during my time as a Whip. Even now, there are generous time allocations in the main. There may be the odd occasion on which extra time could be provided by agreement so that is not an issue. I do not agree with the premise that late evenings would be a turn-off for people entering politics. Politics is a great profession. It attracts people who are interested in public service, community, their party, or in particular causes which they have come in on the back of. They want to bring the knowledge, experience, and passion they have to the floor of the Seanad, the Dáil, or indeed, the council chambers as well.That would not turn people off. It is a privilege to be in these Houses and if it is required on occasion that we sit until 10 p.m., 10.30 p.m. or 11 p.m., so be it. That does not need to be a no-no. As I said, it does not happen every night. I disagree with that premise.

Additional space may be needed. There is increasing pressure on committee rooms from time to time, but other space can be found. Options in Agriculture House are being looked at for office space for new TDs and staff. Perhaps some other area could be looked at for a committee room. However, removing a facility that is, as Senator McDowell said, present in every parliament in the world, is still a beautiful structure and was a beautiful building as regards its fit-out should only be done by agreement of both Houses. It is a shared facility. That agreement has not been forthcoming from the commission or from individual Members. I am not sure who agreed to the changes that have already been made or where they came from. I do not think agreement for them came from the commission, so how did it happen? Who was informed that floorboards would be ripped up? I do not remember it. Who was informed that furniture would be removed tomorrow, next week or next month? I am not sure where that information was relayed either.