Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The Minister is very welcome. I will begin by welcoming a number of guests who are here in the Chamber specifically to hear what the Minister has to say. They are all from the Fórsa trade union. We have Jim Mitchell, assistant general secretary, Niall Shanahan, external communications director, and a host of workers from the Garda civilian staff. I will tell the Minister where they have come from. They have travelled from Galway, Tipperary, Dublin, Donegal, Mayo, Kerry and Wexford to be here today. That, in itself, says something because - let us face it - it is hard to get people to come here to see what we do at the best of times.

These people are here because they are really concerned with the lack of negotiation to date on the new terms and conditions. I have to challenge the Minister because, in her speech, she said that detailed consultations have taken place. I am sorry but I have to disagree with her because the folks who have travelled here today have been very clear that there has been no detail. They have not had any sight of the new terms and conditions. They have been waiting to negotiate since the end of last year and there have been no negotiations. This is causing great concern. The Minister has to understand that, when there is a vacuum and no negotiations and when you are trying to make the types of changes she is proposing to make, people are left very unsettled altogether.

Some of the process the Minister has commenced is of real concern. The process of drawing up terms and conditions is being outsourced to a private consultancy when there are true experts in both Garda management and the Fórsa trade union. Fórsa is not just one of the best unions in Ireland but one of the most professional trade unions anywhere in the world. It has expert negotiators and expert human resources specialists.

The idea that this would be put this out in the first place is a huge mistake but this vacuum and absence of real negotiation is causing great concern and I really do share those concerns. The Minister is looking to make fundamental change. As I understand it, one of the ideas of this Bill is to ensure that everyone is on the same team. That is one of the key themes of the Bill. If they are on the same team, why has the Minister not commenced detailed negotiations? We know she has the new terms and conditions but none of these people have seen them. She has not shared them with them. This is a political choice she has made. I appeal to her today to make a different choice.

I ask her to speak to these people, who, as I have said, have travelled from all over Ireland today, at the end of this debate. They would appreciate it if she would go and spend some time with them. I will tell the Minister what she needs to say. In fairness, she can say it in her response today and I really and truly hope she does. She should tell these people that she will start negotiations immediately. There is no need for any delay. I ask her to give them that assurance. Furthermore, she should assure them that, if it becomes necessary to go to the Workplace Relations Commission, she will do so. The idea that any Minister could not say that is frankly ludicrous because all Ministers respect the industrial relations machinery of the State. These people, who are trade unionists and front-line workers, need to hear that from her today so I am giving her an opportunity to give them full reassurance. I really hope she does so. She should be clear on the fact that they have not travelled here lightly. They have taken time out of their work to come here today from all over Ireland because they are deeply concerned. The process has not been good and the detailed conversations have not taken place. They have no detail whatsoever.The Minister has it in her power to fix this today. She should tell them she will commence negotiations straight away. She does not have to wait until the Bill is passed. As an industrial relations practitioner with SIPTU for many years, I know she can start those conversations today. She needs to do so. Above all, she should, please, give them that reassurance in respect of the Workplace Relations Commission. She needs to state that in order that these people can leave here today feeling they have some comfort from her. She can see the seriousness of this issue.

In my remaining time, I will speak briefly on the Bill. The Minister is aware that Sinn Féin proposed amendments in the Dáil. She accepted some of them and we appreciate that. She is also aware we moved more than 50 amendments on Committee Stage and secured some important concessions but there are still issues in many areas. Having moved further Report Stage amendments, Sinn Féin could not support the Bill in its final format despite the positive progress made.

While Sinn Féin welcomes strengthening the governance of An Garda Síochána, including the creation of a non-executive board for the Garda, it would prefer for the Policing Authority, PA, to have been invested with more powers, especially in respect of policing priorities and strategy. In addition, Sinn Féin believes the PA and GSOC need more independence. Both bodies are required to refer to the Commissioner when making certain decisions. Sinn Féin welcomed the idea of expanding responsibility for community safety beyond An Garda Síochána but it is not clear for what purpose the national community safety group and national office for community safety are separate from the Policing Authority. The replacement of local policing partnerships with local community safety partnerships, which have more defined powers, including setting priorities locally, is an improvement and we acknowledge that, although more details should be set out in the primary legislation rather than being left to statutory instruments. Sinn Féin believes it is a mistake to replace the existing PA and Garda Inspectorate with a policing and community safety authority. We are opposed to the abolition of the Garda Inspectorate, the watering down of the PA and a duplication of functions within the board of An Garda Síochána.

The complaints system has long needed reform. Sinn Féin proposed amendments to give GSOC more time to investigate complaints, which are sometimes received quite late. GSOC is understaffed and does not always enjoy the co-operation of An Garda Síochána as currently constituted. It remains to be seen whether the proposed change to improve the complaints system, that is, restructuring GSOC to the office of police ombudsman, will work.

The establishment of the office of independent examiner of security legislation is a positive development overall but it is important that clarity is provided on what does and does not constitute State security. This is key and has been used in the past to prevent accountability. Accountability and transparency are crucial as the far-reaching changes to policing proposed under the Bill are rolled out.

Sinn Féin cannot support the Bill as it stands. There are too many outstanding issues that my colleague, Deputy Pa Daly, tried to get ironed out on Committee and Report Stages in the Dáil but to no avail. We are still willing to work with the Minister. We will be bringing forward further amendments on Committee Stage here in the Seanad. We want to see a good Bill passed but we have several concerns. In that regard, I acknowledge the presence of members of the Irish Council for Civil Liberties in the Chamber today. The Minister knows what those concerns are and we share many of them. It is important to address those.

Above all, I ask the Minister to be specific in responding on the Bill and the concerns of our brothers and sisters from the Fórsa trade union, who are on the front line of civilian staff. I have given her the words she needs to say to them. The process to date has been truly unsatisfactory. There have been no detailed consultations. They have had no sight of the proposed new terms and conditions even though we know the Department has them. There have been mistakes in how it has been dealt with to date but the Minister has the power to resolve this today. I urge her to do so and speak directly to these people at the end of this debate.