Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

On CAMHS, I agree with Senator Doherty and her comments on the need for a radical overhaul, and root-and-branch reform. It is not working. We all know that from our experiences with our constituents. I am not actually sure what that root-and-branch reform would look like in detail, and that is what we have to figure out. The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Anne Rabbitte, is very committed to that. I also agree totally with Senator Doherty's comments on Pieta House and the work that it does as an organisation, which we all appreciate.

Senator Gavan mentioned a citizens' assembly on unification. I am not sure that a citizens' assembly would be the right model. There are different models for consultation. Citizens' assemblies are not the only ones and we have used other models in the past like constitutional conventions, the New Ireland Forum and so on. One of the difficulties of a citizens' assembly would be that if it was done the way we do citizens' assemblies, only one in seven of the people present would be part of the British tradition and that minority on our island. As I have said previously, if a united Ireland is going to happen, and if it is going to be successful, success will be judged on how the minority will be treated, and whether they feel part of that new State and whether they are willing to support it and come behind it. If the first step was to bring them into a citizens' assembly where they are only one seventh of the membership, that would be a bad start. That is the kind of thing that we need to discuss more.

On the issue of the UK legacy legislation, the Government reiterates its position that we think it is the wrong way to go. It is not the right approach. It is disrespectful to victims and we will make a decision in the next couple of weeks as to how we act. There is the option of supporting a case taken by one of the victims or victims' groups. There is the option of taking our own case to the European Court of Human Rights. We will have legal advice on that quite soon, and we will have to make a judgment. It is both a political and legal judgment as to what the right course of action is. I expect to see the British Prime Minister next week and that will be an opportunity to discuss it further.

Senator Sherlock mentioned budget 2024 and some of the problems that we face, which are less about money now than they used to be in the past. I know when I served in government with the Labour Party, we were often constrained by finances. There was so much we wanted to do but could not do it because the country did not have the money. That is not the constraint now. The constraints now are often very different ones, and often it is a case of finding the people and materials.

On the move to the living wage, we are doing it. It has been set at 60% of the median wage. We have a particular reason for going for that particular benchmark rather than the minimum essential standard of living. That has been set out on the public record. We will make a big step towards that in January. The Government has the report to the Low Pay Commission. We will make a decision on that next week or the week after, and we will see a very big step forward towards a living wage with the increase that came in January, which is 7.8%, and a further increase due in January 2024. We need to not forget that this will be difficult for some employers. It might not be difficult for the public service or the big companies but it will certainly be for SMEs and small businesses in urban and rural Ireland. Some of them will struggle to pay it. Some of them may even have to cut back the hours of their staff. We have to make sure that we do this in a way that does not result in a negative impact on employment that would see businesses closing.

Senator Ardagh talked about the reduction in poverty rates. The reduction in child poverty rates actually began in 2013, long before the Covid-19 pandemic. It goes up and down every year but the downward trend went up with the Great Recession. Child poverty started falling again in 2013, seven years before the pandemic started. The introduction of the pandemic unemployment payment brought it down further. We have had a reversal now, largely driven by inflation and the cost-of-living increases. We need to turn that around again by making work pay, and by investing in education, training and also welfare and social transfers that are targeted.

I fully support Senator Cassells on Navan rail. It would be of great benefit to his constituents and mine, and we need to get on with that. Our Lady's Hospital, Navan is a hospital that I worked in. It is not going to be closed. The population of County Meath is only going in one direction. If it were closed, it would have a very severe impact on Connolly Hospital in Blanchardstown and on Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda. We need to make sure that does not happen. However, it is sensible to make sure that patients go to the right hospital for their care and that is not always the nearest hospital. We have bypass protocols for ambulances all over the country. If my dad or mother, God forbid, were to have a heart attack tonight, they would not be taken to my local hospital, Connolly Hospital. They would be taken straight to the Mater University Hospital. That is the way it should be. We need to be a little bit more open to the idea that while it is good to have the network of hospitals that we have around the country, and we should not close any of them, it does not necessarily mean people being taken to the nearest hospital because it just might not have the services. We cannot have those kind of one in a million or one in 100,000-type patient services in every hospital.

I heard the case made very strongly by Senators around youth work and the need to invest in youth work and youth services. It is certainly clear that the youth organisations and Foróige have done a very good job in the past week or so in making public representatives aware of the work they do. It will, of course, be up to the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy Roderic O'Gorman, to prioritise within his own budget but youth work is something that he very strongly believes in.

Senator Maria Byrne always makes sure I never forget about University Hospital Limerick. It is always on the agenda and it is a hospital that has had a lot of investment and needs a lot more. As we all know, it is not just about the hospital. It is about the community services as well in Ennis and Nenagh, and other issues too. She also pointed out the need for affordable housing, and a lot more of it. It is great that we are building 30,000 houses a year now. How many of them are actually for sale? I am not entirely for sure. If social, own-build and build-to-rent housing are knocked off, how much of thee 30,000 homes are actually available for people to buy? It could be as few as 7,000 or 8,000. Do not get me wrong; we need more housing of all types. I am not saying we need less social housing and more housing to buy. I am saying we need more housing of all types but we particularly need more housing that is actually available to buy. As we up the targets, that is the area that we are going to need to up the most.

The residential zone land tax was raised. I had a very good discussion with the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, on this recently.We are going to make some changes and modifications in the forthcoming Finance Bill. They need to be made. It is a tax that is designed to stop land hoarding. We do not want to gut the tax. It is working, by the way, and we already seeing land around the country being put up for sale when it had just been left dormant for years. If somebody’s land is zoned by the State and then serviced by the State, that is a massive State investment into their land. It is right and proper that they should be taxed if they do not develop it. I am seeing situations where somebody has sought a dezoning and has been refused, where somebody has applied for planning permission, where somebody has planning permission and are in judicial review, and they are being hit by the tax. That was never the intention. The intention was to penalise people who have zoned and serviced land and could sell it and develop it, but choose not to. We will need to make some modifications and get that tax right. I know the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, totally agrees with me on that.

On the issue of the nitrates directive, we have a real fight on our hands to hang onto the 220 kg N/ha. That must be a big priority between now and 2025. Going to 175 kg N/ha would be devastating for family farm incomes. It would be really damaging to our economy and export industry, which is what our food and dairy industry is. It is not just about farmers but about all the businesses linked to farms, as well as the wider economy. We will have a battle on our hands and we might be the only country that has it. We need 27 countries to vote for it, many of which see it as a competitive advantage for us. We need to bear that in mind; we need to win the votes on this and that means convincing those countries that we are serious about improving our water quality and our environmental sustainability standards, too.

The Commissioner has agreed to visit Ireland, so I look forward to meeting him. I hope he will come and visit a farm, although I am not sure if he will be able to or not. I look forward to meeting with him to talk about that and any other flexibilities we might be able to achieve. For the record, the invitation was jointly extended by me and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, because we are working together on this.

Senator Ardagh mentioned disability and the domiciliary care allowance, DCA, payment, which is a very good and targeted payment to people who need it the most. Senator Paul Daly mentioned ash dieback. We are looking at that, both as a safety issue and in regard to the need to compensate people who essentially have seen their crop fail through no fault of their own. I am not sure what we will do there, but we are going to have to help.

Senator Warfield raised the issue of forthcoming legislation. The decision was taken to prioritise the legislation around the abolition of so-called "conversion therapies", and I know Senator Warfield has shown much leadership on that. That is the priority for this session but I will get a timeline on the legislation on disregarding same-sex criminal convictions. We have announced many times that we will be doing that, but the next thing people will need to see is the heads of Bill. I do not have a timeline for that, but I will try to get it.

Senator Conway mentioned the carer's allowance. We have relaxed the means test. It is one of the most relaxed means tests within our system. Perhaps we can relax it some more but we need to bear in mind that it is a welfare payment. If we are paying for their work, that is an employment relationship, and it is a whole other issue. That would mean there would have to be minimum qualifications, there would have to be some form of regulation and the position might have to be advertised. There is also potential liability for the State if we were to pay someone to do work for which they are not qualified, and if there was a job that was not properly advertised, if the Senator understands what I am saying here. Therefore, if it changes from a welfare payment to a payment for a service or for work, it would become a totally different payment and would require some very big changes that might not be welcomed by family carers. However, we do have the carer's support grant, which is not means tested. That is a very valuable payment, too.

Senator Dolan, as always, made the case for balanced regional development in the west, as well as the need to invest in infrastructure. I know she will stay on my case when it comes to that, and so she should. Senator Flynn made some very important points about mental health and Traveller health, which I know are very important and need special attention. I have been to many halting sites in my time but I have not done so in a while. I would be happy to take the Senator up on her invitation to do that some time.

I have covered the UK legacy legislation. Senator Carrigy mentioned the roads programme. He never lets me forget about the Mullingar to Longford road, which I know we need to progress. We need to find funding for that. Senator Seery Kearney rightly pointed to the need to build strong communities as a safety net against poverty because we know that for lots of different reasons, some families are not able to look after each other. It is the strong community and the strong State that must provide that safety net. I agree about the surrogacy information. I say, "Well done" to her for her contribution on "Prime Time" the other night.