Vincent P Martin (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire chuig an Seanad inniu. In moving that the Bill be read a Second Time, the Minister outlined some helpful clarifying and constructive explanations in support of this initiative, which the Green Party grouping supports. The Bill provides for the wearing of body-worn cameras by gardaí and this is something for which gardaí have called for a number of years. It is worth noting that the ICCL has repeatedly expressed some concerns. I take on board concerns from a genuine place as constructive. We need not be afraid of those concerns or consider them anything other than constructive help to the overall debate and consideration. As the Minister said, and is provided for in the Bill, it is assuring that a code of practice will be drawn up governing the use of these cameras. This will have the balance and checks of ministerial sign-off and will be done, as is proposed in the legislation, in a transparent way. The Bill will also involve the current legislative framework for the installation and operation of CCTV in public places in line with Data Protection Commissioner recommendations. It is possible that the next generation of legislators will return to revise legislation in an area that is all the time evolving and fast-moving. In fact, it might even happen before the next generation. We have to keep up, stay modern and offer the very best protections to our people and to our gardaí.

The Bill will also give An Garda Síochána power to use other recording devices and to access digital data, in particular ANPR technology from third parties. It was mooted at one stage that facial recognition technology, FRT, be inserted into this Bill. The proposed FRT legislation will be brought at some later stage to enable gardaí to use it but it will be done in a way that will undergo the maximum proper scrutiny in the Oireachtas. It was wise not to rush that. We want as much buy-in as possible. It was appropriate for the Joint Committee on Justice to scrutinise this Bill and to have that public transparent process to ensure it is as robust, strong and appropriate is possible. The need to balance the fundamental rights of people is at the heart of such justice matters. On the one hand is the need for privacy and, on the other, is the basic social contract between the State and its people that ensures they are safe and protected. This Bill strikes the appropriate balance. I welcome the statement from Liam Herrick of the ICCL who considered the approach to the Bill to be cautious, prudent and sensible. The devil will be in the detail but he viewed it as a prudent way to approach the question. Mr Herrick continued:

If a surveillance technology infringes on fundamental rights, it has to be demonstrated that it meets the threshold of legality, necessity and proportionality, and that it is the least intrusive measure.

What is essential in the detail is that we must ensure there is a good relationship between An Garda Síochána and the public and that this relationship is not jeopardised. The decision to pilot these in three locations ahead of a full national roll-out, which the Minister may want to comment on in his closing remarks, is a prudent decision. Will she provide some information on how these pilots will be assessed? In respect of EU artificial intelligence, equally important to this Bill is the EU proposed artificial intelligence Act that is expected to be agreed this year or early next year. The current draft of that proposed Act, which I believe is the correct terminology to use when talking about proposed legislation in the European Parliament, proposes to ban real-time FRT and, therefore, it is important we do not bring in laws, which could be contradicted or found repugnant to EU legislation.It is a positive move that legislation related to facial recognition technology will be stand-alone and properly scrutinised because it is still unclear what this stand-alone legislation will encompass. Since the EU's Act is a regulation, as distinct from a directive, there will be very little scope for us to regulate areas that have been deemed unacceptable, such as real-time facial recognition technology. This differs from retrospective facial recognition technology, which the Minister has accepted and outlined in her opening remarks where there will be a carve-out for its use in an appropriate way where a judge has approved it, a further balance and checks, or where a serious crime has already taken place and where it is strictly necessary for a targeted search.

It is also important to highlight other aspects of the Bill. It will be positive and will help An Garda Síochána in carrying out its duties. It provides for greater use of automatic number plate recognition by An Garda Síochána, which will be vital in preventing crime and ultimately, catching and apprehending people who are perpetuating and committing crimes. That has to be kept at the centre of legislators’ minds as we legislate. It is for that purpose, to protect people and to apprehend criminals. Its use will have to be justified and approved by someone with a rank of superintendent or higher and anything beyond three months will have to be judge-approved. The provisions around the use of CCTV will address some of the concerns that have been raised by the Data Protection Commissioner. In both cases of CCTV and ANPR, we must ensure there are robust codes of practice around their use. These matters were, and always are, fixable and doable. We must never lose sight of the purpose, which is to prevent crime in a lawful, appropriate way and doing so in such a way as protects the people and protects those who protect us, An Garda Síochána. We must never lose sight of doing what is best for the members of An Garda Síochána who put themselves in harm's way to protect the people.

There are appropriate safeguards in this legislation. I look forward to considering it further on Committee Stage and commend the Minister on bringing it to the House.