Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Senator. As he rightly outlined, section 13 provides for the selection and recommendation of lay members of the commission by the Public Appointments Service, PAS, for appointment by the Minister. It stipulates categories of knowledge and experience that the service shall have regard to in selecting lay members. Subsection (7) provides that the Minister may designate that a person or persons to be the first lay member or members who have been recommended by PAS prior to the established day. Subsection (9) is subject to subsection 6, where that provides that the Minister shall not appoint a lay person as a lay member of the commission unless a resolution approving the appointment has been passed by each House. Subsection (9) provides that such a resolution shall not be required, however, if a lay member or members have been designated before the establishment day as the first lay member or members under subsection (7).

Amendment No. 12, as the Senator has said, would have the effect of deleting from section 13 the power of the Minister in subsection (7) to designate a recommended person before the establishment date. What we are setting out, essentially, is that it is the case that individuals would have to come through the Public Appointments Service. A Minister, irrespective of whether they would be designated or go before the Houses, would choose from a list of names coming through the Public Appointments Service. It is not an absolute that subsection (9) would be applied this way in the first instance, but the challenge that potentially arises is if one had a scenario - and this is something that is being applied in other legislation going through the Houses at the moment - where a date had been set for the establishment of the commission. Obviously, the current commission and the process that exists now would fall on that date. We would need to ensure that a commission would be up and running. If again, for example, the Public Appointments Service, which is under a lot of pressure at the moment, with a huge amount of work being done, was not able to put forward names in time for the Dáil sitting, we might find ourselves on 1 January with names, a commission that is due to expire, or a current group of people who are working on this where it is due to expire, without an ability to put names to the Houses to establish the new commission on the date where the previous one would fall.

What we are talking about here is obviously hypothetical. It is to cover all scenarios, where an establishment date has been put in place for the commission, where one wants to ensure that it is up and running, and that there is no gap in ensuring that the process can continue. It would ensure that if the House is not sitting - and it might not be that it is in recess, but for whatever reason - one can still appoint. It is not to say that this is how this will be applied. It is not to say that this is absolutely what will happen in the first appointment process. Should a scenario arise where it is not possible to bring names before the Houses of the Oireachtas before the designated date, which I as Minister would set, then this is an option to make sure that the process is up and running, and that the commission is in place.If we take subsections (5) and (6) together, and then subsections (7), (8) and (9) together, they can be applied thus; either the approach outlined in the former is taken or that outlined in the latter. It is to cover all bases, it is not to try to avoid or go around any process. It is to allow for the commission to be up and running should there be a scenario where names cannot be put before the House.