Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Senators for their contributions. I will try to address the key issues. Turning to the contribution made by Senator Ruane, I take the point regarding new information and the desire for information of this kind to be accurate. I fully accept what she is saying in this regard. Since the information has come to light about the complexity of the arrangements, especially at many of the county homes, and the evolution many of the county homes experienced in terms of the functions they undertook, officials in my Department have undertaken an institution-by-institution analysis of the county homes to examine this issue of the cut-off date. Based on that analysis of the records for these institutions, our officials are satisfied that the concluding year is reasonable and appropriate.

It is clear from the records we have seen that the homes were no longer admitting unmarried mothers and children beyond these dates. Additionally, the information that came to light and prompted this analysis was that these dates are irrelevant. This is why we needed to take the time to look at this issue and to ensure we got a correct concluding date in terms of the amendments being brought forward on this Stage.

We must be clear this legislation and this scheme is for people who were in mother and baby and county home institutions. Any person who was in a mother and baby and county home institution, even for one night, will qualify as they will have been on the register for that particular institution. It is important to say no mother will have to demonstrate being a relevant person. Eligibility will still be established by the records, as has always been the case. If people, therefore, are on the record of a county home, their residency for the purposes of this Bill is proved.

Recognising the point the Senator made, though, I also, on foot of bringing in these amendments, have brought in the amendment to allow for these concluding dates to be changed. I have done this because I recognise that all this new information has come out during this process. This is why it is important that we have put in the ability not just to add a new institution but to change the concluding dates and to bring them to a later period for those institutions listed.

Senator Boyhan spoke to the complexity of the collocated nature of many of these institutions when he spoke about St. Kevin's. Children were being born there and sent out after just one day. They were gone from the institution after just one day. In that way, St. Kevin's was not acting as a county home anymore. It was acting, as the Senator said, as a maternity facility. I do not think we want to call it a maternity hospital because that is something very different. It was a maternity facility and it was not acting as a county home. From looking at the report of the commission, we know what was happening in the county homes. These were some of the grimmest places in terms of their treatment of women and mothers at birth and in respect of these women and mothers having to work, and undertake a significant amount of work, in these institutions as well.

I certainly take on board the concern raised by the Senator. He has put it on my radar. In the case of the institution mentioned, or, indeed, any other institution, if it becomes clear it was operating as a mother and baby or a county home institution at a time after the concluding date set out in the Schedule, I am open to using the powers available under the legislation to make this change.We are recognising in this legislation and seeking to provide a payment for those who went through the particular experience of time spent in a mother and baby home or county home institution. Through all of this we recognise that there were other types of institutions in the Irish State but this legislation is designed to recognise time spent in mother and baby and county home institutions and the trauma and stigma experienced by people who were admitted to them because they were pregnant and unmarried at that particular time.

In response to Senator Ruane regarding the definition of "relevant person", I made the point earlier that an applicant's entitlement under the scheme will still be verified primarily by reference to the institutional records. Therefore, an applicant is not going to have to worry about proving that he or she meets both parts of the amended definition, as long as his or her name is in the particular institutional records. As we know, the non-adversarial approach that is taken to the scheme and the simplicity therein has allowed the Bill to remain relatively silent on the reasons women found themselves in these institutions. We have not done a big list of why women were in a particular institution; presence in that institution was the key element. The definition of a "relevant person" only made a distinction between a person who was a resident in an institution as a child or as a pregnant woman.

The issue that has presented in relation to county homes, particularly in circumstances where they were co-located with a hospital, means that we have to provide some greater degree of clarity and to highlight the further function of the county home institutions in the scheme, to be more comprehensive and speak to why a woman found herself being admitted to a mother and baby home or particularly a county home institution. Ultimately, the reason for that admittance was that she was pregnant and basically had no alternative option. Often, as we know, these women were abandoned by their families. As I said previously, it is clear from the commission report that county homes were particularly odious places. The women who spent time in county homes endured awful conditions and circumstances and we want to recognise this. We also want to recognise that there is a difference between having given birth in a hospital that is on the site of a county home and having spent time in a particular county home. That is the distinction that we are trying to recognise here. The intention behind the scheme was always to recognise those who spent time within a county home or mother and baby home. I hope I have been able to provide some level of clarity but am happy to provide further clarification if necessary.