Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Chair. I wish Senators a good afternoon. I thank Senator Black for her amendments. As a starting point, I absolutely agree on the urgency, and the urgency for many of the survivors and former residents. Without labouring the point, we also have an urgency to pass this legislation. If we do not get it passed by the end of this term, and if we do not get it completed in this House and through the Dáil again for its Final Stage there, we risk not being able to open it in the autumn. I would like to make that point. The urgency point is correct, but there is an urgency to pass the legislation itself.

The legislation already recognises the need for the ability of the chief deciding officer to be able to prioritise, and Senator Warfield spoke to an age of 75. Under section 21(3)(b) the chief deciding officer "may accord priority to the examination of an application where he or she considers that it is in the interest of fairness and efficiency to do so, having regard in particular to the personal circumstances, including the age and state of health of the applicant". It is probably better not to put it in, because one could have a very fit and healthy 76-year-old, and one can have a 74-year-old who has a terminal illness or something like that. The legislation, as it is currently stated, recognises there will be a need to prioritise, but gives the chief deciding officer some degree of flexibility in how they do this.

Before I speak to the individual amendments, I might speak to the broader point, which is that we are creating a scheme that we believe around 34,000 survivors and former residents will be entitled to apply to. There will be very significant numbers of applications coming in once this scheme is set up, and that is entirely appropriate. We know in the context of the birth information and tracing legislation that we had a very significant number of applications at the start. Just slightly short of 9,000 applications have come in under birth information and tracing legislation. We have to be honest about the fact that, particularly in the first year of the scheme, which will be open for five years, there will be a lot of applications coming in. That is why the use of that phrase "as soon as practicable", which is used there and which is expressed in section 21 and other sections, is the appropriate way to go. We will be initiating a scheme. We will be putting in place an information technology, IT, system to facilitate this scheme and the rapid processing of applications. We will be putting in place relevant staffing resources to facilitate the efficient operationalisation of the system. We spoke in previous debates about the training to ensure the relevant staff, particularly those who will be front-facing and engaging with applicants, will have received trauma-informed training.

We have to recognise there will be a lot of pressure at the start, and I am concerned about putting in place deadlines which I cannot guarantee we will be able to meet, particularly at the start. Regarding some of the deadlines suggested here, particularly those around 14 days and 28 days, my Department and I are not in a position to guarantee that they will be met at the start. That is my reluctance there. I brought in the deadlines on the birth information and tracing legislation. They were not actually there originally. They were not even asked for in the pre-legislative scrutiny, PLS. We brought them in, and it was the right thing to do, but the two agencies were caught initially by the scale of demand. Recognising how sensitive an issue this is and how many people will be applying early on, I do not want to raise unfounded expectations about how quickly it can be delivered at the start. That is why I have a nervousness about putting in some very ambitious timelines which have been set out here.

I will go through the Senators' points in general. Regarding amendment No. 54, which is about coming back for further information if there is incorrect information, with a lot of this, there will be an ability to submit one's application online.In that situation, if people do not fill in the relevant fields on the application form, they will not be able to submit it. The application form will be designed in a way that is simple and that prompts applicants to give the relevant amount of information. As we know, not everyone is online, and this may be the case, because of their age, for a good number of this cohort. As a result, there will also be a mechanism to apply via writing. It is built into the process that the chief deciding officer and his or her team can get back to a person as soon as they see there is a gap in the information provided.

Regarding the various timelines set out, everything has been done to ensure we can have the scheme operating as quickly as possible. It will be complex and it will require the team operating the scheme to deal with tens of thousands of records, most of which, but not all, are digitalised. We recognise there is a certain cohort for whom the records are not there, which will require people to make an affidavit. We may not be able to guarantee the exact same process and timeline for someone whose records are clearly accessible as that applying to someone who has to make an affidavit to avail of the scheme.

Notwithstanding all the work that is happening, both on the legislation and on the administrative side, there are hurdles and difficulties relating to how the scheme will operate. We will get through those difficulties. As we experience them, we will work around them. I have a concern about putting in place quite demanding timelines in certain areas, as I have outlined.

I am not in a position to accept amendment No. 58, which proposes the prioritisation of older applicants. I have referred to section 21(3)(b), which, in effect, achieves the goal of taking applicants' circumstances into consideration. It provides that the chief deciding officer may accord priority on the basis of health and age, but it is open to taking account of broader issues as well.