Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I am not in a position to accept the amendment as presented but that is not to say that I do not understand the intention behind it. That intention of acknowledgement lies behind the wider Government approach to mother and baby and county home institutions, as outlined in the steps we set out in the action plan. Central to that was the apology the Taoiseach made on behalf of the State. It also aligns with work my Department is looking at in terms of how an apology could be provided in a meaningful way to people who wish to receive one.

We are creating a significant scheme that is designed to provide a payment for those who spent certain periods of time in these institutions to recognise what they experienced while there. It is designed in a way that people do not need to bring forward testimony and evidence. The vast majority of people who use the scheme will not do so. They will point to the fact they were in the institution for a certain period of time and, after that, they will receive the payment. A small number for whom the scheme does not have records will provide testimony, probably an affidavit, stating that they were in the institution for a certain period of time. Again, they will not be asked for detailed testimony about their experiences, just an affidavit about being in that institution. They may choose to provide some testimony. What is provided for in this amendment would give them an acknowledgement of their testimony but not perhaps the much larger percentage, many of whom who may have had terrible experiences, whose records are there and did not need to swear an affidavit. I absolutely recognise what the Senator is trying to do, but it is only designed for what could be quite a small proportion of the overall number of people who will use the scheme. Our Department is looking at how we can do something meaningful in terms of individualised apologies for those who wish it. There may be those who do not want to hear from the State or Government and just want to make their application and that is that. There may be and probably are those who, as well as seeing the national apology, would like something more individualised as well.

As the Senator knows, we are working on the survivor stories initiative, which allows survivors to give their account, letting it be recorded and reflected in the national records and memorial centre that we are looking to bring forward as part of the overall approach.

I recognise what the Senator is seeking to do but I do not think the payments legislation is the place to do it. Even if we were doing it here, what is being proposed would only apply to a sub-category of those who use the payments legislation. If something like this was to be done, it should be done in a consistent way that every former resident could be able to avail of if it was something they wanted to do.